There are two problems with that Roger, and both of them are the reaction kinetics involved. Electrolysis to produce Hydrogen is not very efficient, although it might make Oxygen cheaper to industry, and producing methane from Hydrogen and presumably carbon dioxide from the air is terrible. Burning hydrogen in an IC engine is also probably only 30-40% efficient so you loose out on energy use at every stage. The energy density of hydrogen (even if liquid) is much less than hydrocarbon fuels, and making hydrogen liquid uses huge amounts of energy. Hydrogen is also very dangerous in that it is explosive in almost all mixtures with air, so a minor accident could easily turn into a serious firestorm, for example when a few litres of liquid hydrogen is poured onto the ground by mistake at the pump. A single low energy spark and the whole lot would go bang badly. One occasionally sees lorries carrying compressed hydrogen on the road. It has a nest of cylinders, not one big tank, and carries gas only, all to reduce the danger if there is an accident. The quantity carried is a tiny fraction of the cylinder weight, probably only 1-200 kg total in 20 tonnes of cylinders (painted bright red of course).


There was a news item today about Glasgow turning "carbon neutral" in 10 years. It will be an economic disaster even if it ever gets anywhere, although talked up a lot by the BBC. I suggest independence for Scotland next week and then we all stand back and have a good laugh! (slightly tongue in cheek).

I was thinking more using direct solar energy in the desert regions to generate the hydrogen. There are various proposals around for this however as OMS says transporting hydrogen is a problem. This was my next thougt step to convert solar energy into something more transportable and storable.

Nuclear is fine for baseload generation but a storable form of energy is also needed.

I am not wishing to disagree that some silly decisions are taken, but there is also some interesting engineering going on because of despite that.


Newer really big earth moving kit is already moving or moved to be diesel electric, (traditionally it is/was diesel hydraulic) and has been making a transition for a decade or so, so at least the electrical drive train and controls is already a solved problem. Just replace the genset with a big enough battery...


Small stuff has been around for  a while hire one if you like


As of early last year, there were actually some interesting experimental attempts at all electric digger and an all electric dumper truck I'd be the first to agree this is very low TRL stuff, pretty experimental and the thing that is amazing is more that it can be done at all, not that is is particularly well done, yet.


Electric ferry running since Nov 2018  more here

hydrogen leaks may be an issue when you store it at 600 atmosphere pressure like ICI do - it probably makes more sense to pipe it at lower pressures for use as required, as we do for domestic gas today, rather than for applications that need us to each have a large store.

Those of us old enough to remember the old coal derived 'town gas' are recalling a mix of about 60/40 hydrogen and carbon monoxide, so both quite explosive and very poisonous. One thing that was not a problem of the day was leaks from the lead or black iron pipes, or at least no more of a problem than it is now with methane  - but the key thing is that the street pressure is only a fraction of a bar, and at the meter it used to be further regulated down to a pressure equivalent to blowing bubbles in a few inches of water.

Leaks from high pressure H2 lines can actually self ignite in air which is very nasty in a confined space, especially as in bright light the flame is hard to see until you are nearly in it.

On the electric front for big equipment Mike, I agree that electric is possible and is in fact used for mining dumpers and the biggest diggers, either diesel electric or mains. However these machines are very powerful, a typical CAT 200 tonne dumper has a 1500HP diesel and the big excavators take several MW. The diesel electric drive means that no transmission is required and maximum power is available at any speed, particularly up the haul road to the mine top.

In diggers huge power is needed because both large forces and very rapid movement are required and a dumper may often be filled by only 1 to two bucket fulls at 50 or 60 dumpers an hour. There are pictures of some on you tube along with some equipment failures which are pretty dramatic, as well as some crushed smaller vehicles when they got in the way!

In reality these kind of things can never be battery powered, partly because they often run 24/7, and the battery weight would ruin the payload capability and charging would have to take only a minute or two, or perhaps swap batteries a few times a day.


The push to electrify the railways is also slightly difficult to understand, I remember the 125 trains when they started between Bristol and London. They did the non-stop journey in one hour to the minute, which was much better than the present service, but diesel electric of course which was much tidier on the eye when not on the train.

Is hydrogen really difficult to make, store and use?


 Andy Betteridge

There is already a trial of injecting hydrogen into a natural gas grid.


That is probably a better bet than trying to swap parts of the grid completely over to hydrogen as availability will be limited.


Andy Betteridge

There are some interesting big toys out there.


As this 110T 590 kW dumper is bringing material down using regen braking the energy balance is quite good:

https://electrek.co/2017/09/17/electric-dumper-truck-worlds-largest-ev-battery-pack/


There are also some more conventional trucks around that I see underway sometimes:

https://electriccarsreport.com/2019/06/camion-transport-and-migros-test-the-eactros-electric-trucks-in-switzerland/

Well I never. Haven't we said so for years? Ministers are catching on at last, bless 'em.

I don't know about ministers, but at more regional levels I suspect the big plan does recognise that simply replacing all the existing vehicles with electric isn't going to be entirely practical or desirable. I know my local transport authority's plans are many faceted - including reversing the traditional planning and land use zoning systems to get the places people need to often travel between physically much closer together - then encouraging non-motorized transport (walking, cycling), much improved public transport of course, then electrifying where they can the vehicles that remain. It's very early days still, but you might have noticed some of the policies having an effect already - fewer out-of-town supermarkets get permission these days, so there's an increase in "local" stores, road space reallocation away from cars towards bikes and pedestrians, and of course new charge points. Naturally there's lack of co-ordination with national government policies often inadvertently working against the regional plans, but that was ever the case in politics individual problems tend to get sorted eventually.


Far be it from me to suggest that people have been keeping a bit quiet about the plans for the major reduction in the number of cars for fear it would discourage the necessary R&D in electric vehicles, but ....


    - Andy.