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Career advice from senior or retired engineers

Peter Brooks
The purpose of this forum is highlight information from senior or retired engineers that will provide advice to new people entering the profession. 


The recent published articles by the IET:-

"Too old to be an engineer" in the E&T July 2019 magazine

"100,000 older workers kicked out of IBM, as company craved Googles Cool image" published August 1, 2019

started me thinking about the need to communicate advice on avoiding speed bumps during one's carrier.


During my 45+ years in engineer I have been laid off twice -once when I was 28 and again at 63.

I have worked for 9 companies in three countries where 8 of those companies are no longer in existence. 

Total time out of work has not exceeded 6 weeks.

I have made three complete changes in related technology/products.


Here is an example of the advice I received early on in my career:- "The young engineer knows the rules, the old engineer knows the exceptions" -- meaning even if one thinks one knows the answer ask the senior engineer if there is better solution.


Peter Brooks MIET

Palm Bay Florida USA


 

   


  • 0
    Hello Roy:


    I am now ready to discuss your 5 th paragraph  in your message from August 19 th 2019.


    The answer about using a cookie cutter approach to engineering (use of mathematical formulas) depends on if the engineer is working on a bleeding/leading edge technology or trailing edge technology.


    Usually meaningful models are not developed until much later in the process.


    As an example, currently there is no good model for determining the corrosion properties of metallic alloys placed into humans and used in hip replacements.


    Peter Brooks

    Palm Bay Florida USA 

  • 0
    Hello Peter


    Trying to align with the tread title about providing career advice. I recommend anyone to avoid if possible placing yourself, your property or your reputation in jeopardy.  


    It is a horrible experience to be intimidated and bullied by whatever means and for whatever reason.  I have experienced such behaviour in many circumstances, most commonly in attending football matches, during the era of vicious football hooliganism. As a teenager visiting the next town could risk a severe beating and people are being murdered today for the offence of being on “someone else’s turf”.  A couple of years ago, I stopped in a Hotel and my room overlooked the site of the Battle of Orgreave which took place in June 1984.  I was a “Power Worker” at the time, picket lines and police road blocks were commonplace. Residual bitterness and enmities still linger in certain communities.  A few years earlier a colleague was followed from a social club and attacked, because he was blamed for power cuts (nothing to do with him).  I was in Georgia and South Carolina last year, where strange fruit sometimes used to hang.


    At a non-violent level, demarcation and restrictive practices or closed shops can be used by trades unions, but also by many professionals who would disdain “unions”. Businesses can engage in anti-competitive practices or bully smaller suppliers into price cuts and slow payment.  UK professional engineering institutions primarily focus on enhancing the reputation of those who they judge to be “superior” in the territory that they represent.  The weakness is that for someone to be “superior” someone else must be “inferior”, if that doesn’t reflect the culture or needs of my organisation, then I might find it unhelpful.  Humans are tribal and everyone is at it to some extent - competing for their "tribe" that is.


    In terms of career advice, it would seem sensible to me to engage with a professional body and seek to maximise the potential benefits. That could include seeking CEng if you are eligible, on the basis that you can choose to display it or not.  Try to cultivate friends but without making enemies. Sometimes it is necessary to "take a side" or even to "fight" for it, but like professional sportspeople we should compete with respect. Its a small world so "playing dirty" or disrespecting others can come back to bite you.


    Politics in some form is everywhere, I agree that you can't avoid it completely , but if you prefer you can emphasise your technical credentials and focus mainly on those.


    "Cookie Cutter" loses a little in translation, despite me having visited North America many times.  Every tool in the toolbox has some use and obviously more complex forms of Mathematics is part of that. If this is a strength and something that you really enjoy then make the most of it. If not then focus in a direction where your alternative strengths are an advantage. I am critical of those who seek to use proficiency in calculus based maths and science the gateway to becoming an engineer or not, simply because many experienced and excellent engineers don't deploy such tools.   




  • 0
    Not particularly because of the immediately above messages, but just an important reminder generally: It's worth making sure that younger (and older!) engineers remember that legal advice, including regarding employment law, is available through IET Connect https://www.ietconnect.org/


    If anyone thinks are being treated unacceptably at work it's worth getting in touch with them to check the legal position. Rather than believing anything anyone puts on a web forum ?


    Cheers,


    Andy
  • 0
    Hello Andy:


    Regarding using IET connect -- I have already discussed this item with Jane Petit who heads up that organization.


    Appears legal advice is limited to people currently living in the UK under British Law.  Not too sure they can help retirees living in (for example) Spain or currently working in the EU.


    Peter Brooks MIET

    Palm Bay Florida USA
  • 0
    Yes, apologies, that's a very important point - I meant to include that, but got interrupted by a phone call mid post.


    Thanks,


    Andy
  • 0
    Hello Andy:

    One more additional comment concerning your August 19, 2019 response:


    In your last paragraph you appear to be asking what future career (silo) should a young person be going into.


    I believe that biological science will be the key driver for this century. For example instead of trying to emulate the brain function using silicon microcircuits we need to use what nature has taken millions of years to develop.


    Peter Brooks MIET

    Palm Bay Florida USA

  • 0
    https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2019/08/young-people-believe-their-future-jobs-may-not-even-exist-yet/
  • 0
    Hello Roy:


    It is my position that Psychology is a dangerous voodoo science and should be ignored.

    I am currently holding discussions with a Psychologist at one of our local Universities and he admits that most research papers "can not" be duplicated by another independent researcher- which is the first rule for accepting scientific work. 


    During my working life I was subjected to psychological profiling, IQ testing and the worst one 3 day "Encounter meetings" by my employer. The later is used to try and form working team going down to the emotional level. It always ended up by emotionally breaking down one or two members. They usually left the company within a couple of weeks.


    Peter Brooks MIET

    Palm Bay Florida USA


  • 0
    Hello Roy:


    I am sorry that while the US and the UK speak the same language we have different slang expressions and spelling (checks= cheques).


    "Cookie Cutter" does not relate to ones tools sets. It relates to baking cookies and stamping out the same thing over and over again. Another term might be dogma.


    Example Calling your doctor and he tells you take two aspirins and see him in the morning. 


    Regarding your reference to the "Battle of Orgreave" and the miner's union- I had to look it up, as it happened after I left the UK.  Ms. Thatcher just means the poll tax to me, but that is another story.


    I will say that my respect for the miner's union died after their major strike just post WW2.


    Peter Brooks MIET

    Palm Bay Florida USA
  • 0

    Roy Bowdler:
    https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2019/08/young-people-believe-their-future-jobs-may-not-even-exist-yet/




    In fact Roy Bowdler‍, the role I have at the IET (Online Community Manager) didn't exist when I was 16 either.... ?

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