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ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL IN STATUS

Can we say that the CEng and IEng be considered equal titles in professional status or IEng is inferior than CEng.

As the Application Form for both CEng and IEng is same.
  • Thank you for the replies.


    If i be specific to the UK, then i am saying that currently both Egineers and Technologists having 3 or 4 years Bachelor Degrees are being awarded the title IEng.  The ECUK takes them in Sydney Accord.  Whilst Other Countries takes their Technologists having 4 years Bachelor of Technology Degrees, into Sydney Accord and their Engineers having 4 years Bachelor of Engineering Degrees, into Washington Accord.  Here is the difference of approach between the UK and other countries.  It needs to be clarify.


    Sydney Accord for whom and Washington Accord for whom, as far as Engineers and Technologists are concerned.


    Can some on put out us from this confusion please.

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Gentleman a key strategy needs to be the employers.

    In USA the industrial exemption allows university graduates to work as design, support or test Engineers without being licensed.

    Many Employers oppose to restrictions the registration and licensing creates. They lobby the government be it in UK, US or EU etc etc in order to limit or completely suppress registration of Engineers.


    So the main challenge is that a company ,manager will ask what value added is in hiring IEng, CEng etc over similarly qualified and experienced Engineer without registration? And when good info provided such as aderence to institutes code of conduct and additional peer review validation of skills etc, is this sufficient ?   In many cases it depands and I speculate in many it has no difference as companies have their own code of conduct or compliance requirements. 

    Just a thought 

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Georgios,


    I seen a case when an Engineer from Spain applied for CEng in UK and was anly able to register as IEng as he had only Bachelors degree in Engineering and possibly other UKSPEC related info..

    But with the same bachelors degree he via other country member in FIANI was able to register as EurIng.

    It appears accredited bachelors degree in Engineering from Spain is good for FEANI EUR Ing.


    For me during my career  worked on projects in USA, Spain, Ireland, UK, Asia Pacific, Israel and other countries, I elected IEng and CEng as most suitable for recognition of my Engineering skills. Even when I reside in USA for most of my professional life.

    I have respect to PE's in USA and understand the need for licensing and public safety. PE's in US are highly contributing to the public savety and if my work required me to be licensed I would have studied and tried to become a licensed in US but in all my work as an Engineer the Employers didn't require that as something that needed for my job.

  • The definition of the Incorporated Engineer (IEng) of ECUK is conflicting with the definition of the Engineering Technologist of IEA-Sydney Accord.  The BEng is not related to Engineering Technologist according to IEA-Sydney Accord.


    It is my understanding...
  • I will try to save all of us the trouble I went through in another long-running thread ( IEng discontinued ) 


    IEng and CEng are not equal, otherwise there won't be need to have the two titles.


    IEng is benchmarked at Bachelors (level 6) while CEng is benchmarked at Masters level (level 7).  To demonstrate the respective level, one may opt to undertake EngC-accreditted BEng/ MSc/MEng course; or submit evidence of work-based learning to the required level.

    Please note that if your degree is not accreditted, some PEIs may assess and recognise it as meeting the respective academic benchmark. Once that is done, and subject to your demonstration of required competence, your registration assessment may proceed as the standard route.


    Now, if one considers the Washington, Sydney and Dublin accords; the IEA, and FEANI agreements, there are countries whose engineering programmes are benchmarked at 'their' bachelors level. South Africa is one such signatory.  Hypothetically , a candidate with a BEng from SA would meet the academic benchmark for CEng through mutual recognition. Likewise someone with a FEANI recognised Bachelors course would be eligible for registration as EUR-ING.  However, if your Bachelors (BSc/BEng) is from UK or assessed as equivalent by a UK PEI, you can only register as IEng. Someone talked about degree inflation...

    According to the agreements, IEng = Engineering Technologist.  EngC is a signatory to the agreements and  IET has two representatives in the EngC. 

    Therefore it means that nothing will change in the foreseeable future, despite being informed in the previous thread that a Working Group was 'looking into it'.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Indeed, each country governs by it laws.  Here is Italy


    "A Qualified Engineer who is citizen of an EU/EEA country (or is a family member of a person with nationality of an EU/EEA country) or Switzerland and is legally practicing as Qualified Engineer in his/her country of origin, can apply for authorization to work as Qualified Engineer in Italy. (artt. from 16 to 25 of Legislative Decree 206/2007) He/she has to submit the application for recognition of his/her professional title/qualification ay the Ministry of Justice (please see above) The recognition will be awarded if the professional qualification is adequate (in particular, if the education complies with art. 11. point d) of Directive 2005/36/EC for Qualified Junior Engineers and with art. 11. point e) of Directive 2005/36/EC) for Qualified Engineers.   This will be decided by a Conference of Services where C.N.I. leaves his opinion as concerns the adaptation measures in the cases the qualification is not seen as equivalent to the national ones. If the applicant’s qualification is not seen as equivalent, he/she shall adapt the gap by either a professional training not longer than three years or by a written and oral test. The applicant can choose the adaptation measure he/she prefers. CNI is in charge of organizing and supplying them.   The recognition decree issued by the Ministry, once successfully completed the adaptation measures (if any), enables the holder to enroll to the Register held by the Order of Engineers that have its headquarters in the province in which the professional decides to reside or have his professional domicile"


    The type of the degree is highlyimportant.

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    Nouman Abid Chuhan:

    Can we say that the CEng and IEng be considered equal titles in professional status or IEng is inferior than CEng. As the Application Form for both CEng and IEng is same.




    The important thing to understand here is that as engineers, our job is to understand the laws of nature: Mathematics, Science and Engineering; and put these to use in order to create solutions (in the form of technology or products) to solve many of society's problems. If we have the inclination, then we can contribute towards running the organisation: Teams, Projects and Budgets. But the latter is not relevant to being recognised as engineers, as these things are aspects of career development: earning more money.


    The whole thing about professional registration (CEng, IEng etc), and other add-ons such as the Washington Accord and level 7 on the QCF are pure administrative B.S. and an unnecessary worry for engineers who have far more important things to worry about. In the UK nobody needs to achieve CEng or IEng or even a degree - though the education value is undeniable.


    If an engineer tells an employer they're CEng registered, then they'll be expected to solve all the problems; which is asking for trouble. If they say they're a second class engineer then they'll be treated as one. So the best thing is to say they're most ambitious to achieve success as an engineer. That way the engineer can get on with learning as much as they can and contribute likewise; hopefully with the gratitude of the employer.


    CEng or IEng registration simply means that engineer has satisfied an administrative process that they are entitled to be on a register that says they're competent engineer. But the real status is to achieve reputation in industry and hopefully in society that they're a great engineer. The beneficial result may be: TV appearance; autobiography; documentary about their achievement; etc, etc.


    Unfortunately, I've never heard of any CEng who's achieved public recognition in the way that a song writer; novelist; fashion designer; artist; or even an architect has done so. Therefore whole business about the importance of CEng vs IEng can only be looked upon as an in-house dispute; or as I would call it a pile of $%^&.


    The bottom line is that it's the mind: your belief through education, experience and maturity, that determines how good an engineer you are and not your ability to elevate yourself on the EC register. Nobody as ever, in history, been considered great at something just because they're on some administrative list of greatness. Doesn't exist!




     

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Geogios, I agree that CEng is not equal to IEng.  

    As far as Italy, this is from FEANI:

    Important note for Italian applicants: our Italian National Member, CNI (Consiglio Nazionale Ingegneri) does not accept to process EUR ING applications. CNI states that it would be against the Italian law to bear the EUR ING title in Italy. Indeed, the EUR ING being a professional title, would introduce a confusion with the Italian professional title which can only be delivered by the Italian administration for education.

    Consequently, an engineer with an education from Italy and professional experience in Italy only cannot introduce a request for EUR ING through the Italian National Member.
    However, if an engineer with an education from Italy exercises his profession in another European country and is a member of the FEANI National Member in that country, he may send his application to that National Member.
    An application sent directly to the FEANI Secretariat General cannot be considered.


    Another mobility aid is the 

      Engineering Card   (Not Eur Ing title)


    The Engineering Card is already available in the following countries:









  • Gentlemen


    From the above whole discussion till now, it is obvious that, if we talk about only the UK to date, now everybody is agreed that the title IEng is not at par to the CEng because IEng relates to the Bachelors Degrees whilst CEng to the Masters Degrees.


    But my question still exists that if two separate professions are defined i.e. Engineering Technologist and Professional Engineer, or shotly speaking Technologist and Engineer, then according to above conclusion about IEng and Ceng, does it mean that the Technologist is lower or junior than the Engineer.  In my personal opinion, these should be at par because Technologist has the qualifications from Bachelor to PhD in Technology whilst Engineer has also the qualifications from Bachelor to PhD in Engineering.


    IEng should be only for Technology Graduates whereas CEng should be only for Engineering Graduates.  UK should allocate their titles IEng and CEng according to the discipline and should declare them at par.


    Gentlemen, do you agree with me or not........  Thank you.



  • Nouman Abid Chuhan:


    IEng should be only for Technology Graduates whereas CEng should be only for Engineering Graduates.  UK should allocate their titles IEng and CEng according to the discipline and should declare them at par.


    Gentlemen, do you agree with me or not........  Thank you.


     




    That would be very strange.  An Incorporated Engineer would be a technologist, while a Chartered Engineer would be an engineer.


    It would make more sense to bring in something like CTech for technologists.


    But all this is quibbling about terminology that is not even consistent between countries.  In the UK, the term "engineer" has never been protected, and is used by almost anyone who designs, makes or fixes things (unless those things are big and oily, in which case they are a mechanic).  Meanwhile, "technologist" isn't widely used, but would mean someone who deals with technology.


    So someone who designs bridges isn't really a technologist, but someone who designs digital cameras could be.