Najeeb,

Indeed, the field of Engineering is so wide that there is a variety Engineers on all levels be it R&D, or Applied R&D, Some elect to be more academic to teach in universities while others more applied to implement technologies.  now as some commented here UK is rec laming its Independence Brexit and it remains to see how this will affect if at all the UK Engineers and international standing of IEng.

The main effort needs to be among employers. How to make registered Engineers more desirable by employers? To have real cases of value added.

I think legislation can help as in some countries for public safety registered professionals are the core.

Employers interested in registered professionals and offer them better benefits.

For example it can be is additional pay in a form of continuing education fund,  etc, etc. I lived in one such country and worked for an employer that had what was Vocational Employee, Technician, Engineer, manager.

All had ranks and levels. I began as Technician level 9 it was after Military service as technician with 5 years experience. The requirement was also to be registered as technician in the national register similar as EngTech in UK.  My benefits and pay were significantly higher then a Vocational Employee on the same level 9.  The highest level was 12.

Employers preferred registered employees and I think legislation required by law that certain % must be registered.

Roy you posted interesting views, lengthy.

Noumans views are resonating with my feelings about the subject.

After reading all the replies, it seems that the discussion is being diverted from the subject Topic.  The comparison of UK Titles with other Contries Titles are not required here.  If we could restrict our discussion on the subject topic, then we can reach on a fruitful conclusion, i think.


Let me re-phrase my point of view regarding subject cited above.


In the light of the UK-SPEC Document,  there are two main routes towards registrations, one is Academic Route and other is Individual Route.  Both Routes demand relevant Competencies according to related Title.  For example, IEng has its own competencies and CEng has its own competencies.  Suppose, we consider the Acadmic Route for a while:  


The IEng is granted to either Bachelor of Engineering Degree holder or Bachelor of Technology Degree holder.  Because, internationally IEng is equivalent to the Title Engineering Technologist, therefore, according to UK-SPEC, both B.Eng and B.Tech Degree holders are entitled as Engineering Technologist.  This is the main conflict.  Can a B.Eng Degree holder be called an Engineering Technologist?


Likewise, The CEng is granted to either Master of Engineering Degree holder or Master of Technology Degree holder.  Because, internationally CEng is equivalent to the Title Professional Engineer, therefore, according to UK-SPEC, both Degree holders are entitled as Professional Engineer.  This is the main conflict.  Can a Master of Technology Degree holder be called a Professional Engineer?


In these circumstances, IEng having B.Eng Degree will fall under the Sydney Accord and CEng having M.Tech Degree will fall under Washington Accord.  isn't a confusion???  The EC-UK and IET-UK must look into it.


In my opinion, only B.Tech and M.Tech and D.Tech holders may be awarded IEng Title, whilst, only B.Eng and M.Eng and Phd Eng holders may be awarded CEng Title.  On the other hand, the status of both IEng and CEng should be equal but in their own fields.


If not agreed, then i suggest that Engineering Degree holders (B.Eng) may be awarded the title "IEng" and (M.Eng, MSc Eng and PhD Eng) may be "CEng", whilst, Technology Degree holders (B.Tech) may be awarded the title "ITech (Incorporated Technologist)" and (M.Tech, D.Tech or PhD Tech) may be "CTech (Chartered Technologist)".


And i am agreed that the IET UK is awarding the Membership Title "MIET" to both kind of degree holders i.e. Engineering Degree holders and Technology Degree Holders.


Specific reply on my above comments will be highly appreciated please.  Thank you.

Nouman, interesting approach and good points that maydo justice to Technologists in UK but I don't know if it will be adopted.

CEng candidates have to demonstrate significant engineering technical (design competencies) and commercial leadership and management competencies.  UKSPEC

Would you require the same from CTech?  - Significant technical (applied competencies) and commercial leadership and management competencies with academic learning on the MTech or higher level. 

It makes alot of sence to me if a person studied Technology and earned degree in technology then they should be Technologist just like a person who studiet to become a Phycisian studied Medicine or Dental Medicine a Dentist etc.

I think becoming CHARTERED is the key, but the issue is that internationally the similar sounding qualification has different requirements this will add to frastration when it comes to mobility of Engineers and Technologists.

In the past Incorporated Engineer title had a higher number of votes then Chartered Technologist, the voters didn't want to let the "Engineer" word out of the title so this is a challange. 

IEng and ITech is also interesting proposal. I heard some recomed to change to Associate or Practitioner or Professional - Associate Engineer and Associate Technologist.

This way Technologist becomes its own profession and its about time. But it would be an uphill fight.

BCS UK has its own qualification of CITP - Chartered IT Professional, while efforts been made to boost it recognition and I think it did gained some additional recognition its still fighting for it place among Chartered professionals.

The definition, that the IEng (Engineering Technologist) has lower level of knowledge i.e. Bachelors Degree (either in Engineering or Technology) as compare to the CEng (Professional Engineer) who has higher level of knowledge i.e. Masters Degree (either in Engineering or Technology), is a legacy, i think.  Because both titles i.e. IEng and CEng are being awarded to both kind of Graduates i.e. Engineering and Technology.  It is conflicting the International Accords i.e. Washington Accord and Sydney Accord.


ECUK takes its CEng into Washington Accord, means, both M.Eng and M.Tech as CEng falls under Washington Accord and gets the international standard Title i.e. Professional Engineer.  Whilst it is quite clear that Washington Accord is about Engineering only.


Likewise, ECUK takes its IEng into Sydney Accord, means, both B.Eng and B.Tech as IEng falls under Sydney Accord and gets the international standard Title i.e. Engineering Technologist.  Whilst it is quite clear that Sydney Accord is about Engineering Technology only.  


 That is why, i am saying that the Titles of ECUK i.e. CEng and IEng under UK-SPEC are conflicting with the the Titles of IEA i.e. Professional Engineer and Engineering Technologist under Washington Accord and Sydney Accord, respectively.



As far as, Titles for Engineers and Technologists used in UK and rest of the world (other countries) are concerned, these are standardized by various International Accords.  The most famous is IEA (Washington Accord and Sydney Accord).  The Washington Accord deals with Engineering Profession by awarding the title Professional Engineer whilst the Sydney Accord deals with Engineering Technology Profession by awarding the title Engineering Technologist.  Now the Question that whether the Professional Engineer and Engineering Tecnologist are equal in status.  In my opinion, yes both should be treated at par or at equal status being a distinct disciplines of knowledge or professions, otherwise, there would not be any need of Sydney Accord, The Washington Accord would be enough for both Engineers and Technologists.


I hope that now i would be succeeded to get all of you well understand the subject point.  Please give your feedback.  Thank you.

Najeeb,  I think what needs to happen is to look at the classes that one took and not necesarry only on the title of the degree. The subjects studied, projects can demonstrate more acuratly what was covered in the degree programme.

There are professionals and bodies such as NARIC UK that can evaluate comparability of a degree to the British degree on class by calss basis.

Nouman, Bachelor degrees are also under Washington Accord. If one has only Bachelors degree accredited by a body singed the accord like ABET 'in USA then it can be reviewed under Washington Accord if applicant applied for CEng.

Both degrees needed to be accredited BEng or BScEng and MEng or MScEng in order to satisfy academic requirement for CEng.

If the applicant is applying for IEng then Sidney Accord may be used if their country is signed it.But if the degree is qualified by Washington Accord that will work to as more countries signed Washington Accord.

Gentlemen,

All of this has been discussed over and over again when I was a member of the IMechIE, IIE and recently the IET.

Nothing will change as the direction and rules of the institutions are all revised by members who are mostly CEng's and in the majority on the boards. Especially when some of them gained CEng with HNC and by an apprenticship route, when those where the requirements.


Think how former IEng's  like myself felt like when "Different but Equal " to CEng's was removed with the changes to the Standards by the ECUK.


Daniel.

(Retired IEng. HNC 1965.)

I would request to the Registration Department of the IET-UK to intervene in this matter, hence, may give their stance or endorse my previous comments regarding subject cited above to the EC-UK to clarify all of us.  Thank you.

The Washington, Sydney, Dublin or Asian and other accords recognize the underlying degrees, the education and 
is an international accreditation agreement for professional engineering academic degrees between the bodies responsible for accreditation in its signatory countries.

If you are registered licensed PEng in Canada or not has no difference when you apply in UK  for CEng or IEng as long as your degree is recognized under Washington accord or deemed equivalent you will fufill the academic degree stage ( Stage 1) for CEng registration and may progress to final PRI stage.