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RCD Protection For Old Installations

Former Community Member
Former Community Member

Hey there, 

Would like to hear your thoughts on the case. 

If the installation from the 70s or 80s with old mem board has no rcd protection for neither sockets nor lights (with metal front plate switches, which are connected to CPC), taking into consideration that the installation was working cheerfully since the old days till today and all Zs values are within the range of the installed breakers and overall good condition. Would this require an upgrade to rcd protection as of the 18th edition or would class as C3 as of best practice guide 4 suggest on eicr? 

How would you approach the situation?

Regards, 

Karolis

  • Karolis Meskunas: 
     

     don`t think so the landlord is up for it.  

    The same landlord who will throw you to the wolves if there’s a complaint from the tenants or worse.

    Write up an EICR which clearly states any non-compliances with the current edition of the Wiring Regulations and add that upgrading is highly recommended.

    In light of the recent prosecution of an electrician for issuing a satisfactory EICR for a forty year old installation without raising any concerns, the idea that if it complied with the regulations forty years ago it will still be okay now has well and truly been knocked on the head.

  • Chapter 65 page 237 651.2 note 2

  • Sparkingchip: 
     

    Karolis Meskunas: 
     

     don`t think so the landlord is up for it.  

    The same landlord who will throw you to the wolves if there’s a complaint from the tenants or worse.

    Write up an EICR which clearly states any non-compliances with the current edition of the Wiring Regulations and add that upgrading is highly recommended.

    In light of the recent prosecution of an electrician for issuing a satisfactory EICR for a forty year old installation without raising any concerns, the idea that if it complied with the regulations forty years ago it will still be okay now has well and truly been knocked on the head.

    Basically as Andy said above but you have to use your judgment especially for socket outlets that could reasonably used for outdoor  portable equipment. 

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    Yes, I am aware of those regulations, but this would mean new installation under current regulations, shall be installed with RCD protection, it does not mention specifically let property, nor mentions any existing installations not protected shall be upgraded now.  

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    It is flat, without access to the garden, chance of charging or doing anything else outside. 

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    No way I am risking myself, of course, I want it to be safe for me and the person in the flat and whoever else. I already told the landlord that the upgrade will be very likely necessary.  

  • Karolis Meskunas: 
     

    Yes, I am aware of those regulations, but this would mean new installation under current regulations, shall be installed with RCD protection, it does not mention specifically let property, nor mentions any existing installations not protected shall be upgraded now.  

    It‘s your judgment and signature, what the landlord thinks or can afford isn’t a consideration.

  • Karolis Meskunas: 
     

    No way I am risking myself, of course, I want it to be safe for me and the person in the flat and whoever else. I already told the landlord that the upgrade will be very likely necessary.  

    Probably be just a big list of C3’s, the bathroom could be the weak link.

  • The landlord regs as written are absolute - the house must at all times comply with BS 7671:2018; and if an EICR shows any deviation, it must be fixed within 28 days (so implicitly including C3's). This is of course stupid, so the government guidance backtracks and says it doesn't have to be perfect (so by implication you can ignore C3's). So as long as the landlord isn't in the LA's bad books, ignoring C3's is probably ok.

    The writer of the EICR has a completely subjective choice about whether to code deviations from the current regs as as C2 or C3. There is no right answer. The current regs say nearly everything needs RCDs; older regs say sockets likely to be used for outdoors need RCDs; older-still regs don't require RCDs. 

    If the EICR writer is aware that the report is for a landlord, then that may help influence their choice of C2 vs C3 - i.e. “is this something that the landlord deserves be fined for if not fixed within 28 days?".

  • wallywombat: 
    The landlord regs as written are absolute - the house must at all times comply with BS 7671:2018; and if an EICR shows any deviation, it must be fixed within 28 days (so implicitly including C3's). This is of course stupid, so the government guidance backtracks and says it doesn't have to be perfect (so by implication you can ignore C3's). So as long as the landlord isn't in the LA's bad books, ignoring C3's is probably ok.

    It's a complete ***'s muddle. The I&T has to be i.a.w. the rules set down in BS 7671:2018, which does not mean that the installation has to comply. Some of us contacted our MPs, but it didn't do any good.

    FWIW, my view is that on the one hand it is unreasonable to expect all privately rented property to be updated, but on the other hand, irrespective of age, the installation has to be in good condition.

    There are limits as to the age of an installation. For me, it is around the time that MCBs replaced fuses. The majority of the population nowadays wouldn't have a clue what to do if a fuse blew. That's assuming that they had any fuse wire!

    The acid test must be whether or not you would be happy with no RCD protection in your own home.