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PC Monitors switching off and DVI to HDMI cables failing

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
Hi,


I'm new to the Forum but i'll try and explain this as best I can as it's a strange one!.. Sorry it's a long one!


The issue -

For several weeks now, there have been reports of multiple Monitors intermittently switching off and on again across 5 or 6 different PC users in an office of 20 PC users. Sometimes as little as twice a day but up to as often as15 times a day Apparently, this has led to multiple monitor leads no longer working and being replaced but the issue still remains.


The system -

Sub DB fed from Main DB on a TNCS system (The office is part of a larger factory / workshop set up). The circuit in question is a 32A Ring with a 30mA RCD up front, feeding 24 twin sockets in 4.0mm2 T+E. It is dedicated to office use only. Only 1 of the 2 earth connection points have been used on each socket outlet and no extra earth has been ran alongside it, so simply a ring main earth and that's it. It is a fairly new installation but the equipment has all been used before as the personnel have just moved all their stuff from an old office into a new one. There is an identical ring circuit feeding the other side of the room with the same set up but with no issues with their monitors reported (same monitors and fed from the same Board).

For the most part, monitors and PC's are plugged directly into the wall sockets but there are a few stations that are fed from 4 way extension leads. Problems are occurring on both set ups.


What's been tried / observed already -

Socket fronts dropped off, no N/E reversals and all connections tight. R1R2 = 0.05 ohms and insulation resistance test at the board = >999 Mohms so no issues across any combination of conductors.

Mis-leading -

I had a cheap and cheerful meter connected via Bluetooth that was sampling and logging every second, that picked up frequency spikes of up to 350Hz! I am now convinced that this is a banana skin and that the meter may have been suffering some communication interference (maybe caused by the same fault dropping the monitors out?!) as I later connected an Oscilloscope which did not show any fluctuation on 50 Hz. Thought i'd mention though just in case!


What the scope did pick up though, was a voltage on the exposed metal casing at the bottom of the monitor at the rear (Where the DVI ports etc are) that spiked whenever the monitor was turned off via the fault.


Here's where it gets weird.... The PC users, prior to my involvement had set up a 100w lamp (Bayonet type) to see if it would flicker when the monitors turned off (which is doesn't) but in actual fact, when you turn the lamp on and off, it would throw huge spikes onto this metal casing at the back of the monitor! I measured up to 100V on the scope! It would also turn the monitor OFF/ON. The lamp has no earth connection as it is all plastic housing.

When I plugged the lamp into the sockets on the other side of the room (Separate ring circuit) it did make a slight reading on the scope when probing the same part of somebody else's monitor but nothing like the amplitude I was getting on the problem circuit. More like 5V rather than 100V and no monitor issues either.

I can only assume that the RCD isn't tripping because it is such a fast spike! However that does surprise me that it would still damage a lead!?

I have turned off some of the Aircon unit circuits for as long as i've been able to as I wondered if a faulty inverter may be throwing something down the earth but it didn't seem to reduce the flickering.


So yeah.... Help!
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    It doesn't seem so no. Everything is pretty straight forward in that regard and it is definitely worse with the 100W lamp.
  • As a matter of interest what does the workshop do? Are there arc welders in use or heavy metal cutting machinery all of which could put something nasty on the mains
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Hi, I've tried to cover everything in my response to mapj1 but no, I have not managed to bell any of the leads out yet but when they have failed previously, the office staff have taken the faulty leads and tried to power monitors on the none problem side of the room and they still did not work. They tried all sorts from what I can gather as it's been going on for months! Drivers on the PC's are fine apparently, and PC's have been looked at very closely by their IT team before I got involved.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Kelly Marie Angel:

    As a matter of interest what does the workshop do? Are there arc welders in use or heavy metal cutting machinery all of which could put something nasty on the mains 


    No, Nothing like that, not connected to this DB anyway and the issue is replicated by switching a 100W lamp on/off so I figured it could literally be anything if that's the case. I know thetre has been some process of elimination like water boilers being turned off, AC turned off etc but the problem still occurs.


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    I understand to use the "quote" now ? derp!... Here's a pic from someone else's Monitor but on the same ring. This person has had less issues than the others. This is with no flicking the lamp on/off so what you are seeing is just from about 12 people using their PC's...936e9103b6d1ec45dc68045f69b51ef6-original-10.jpg
  • Right Dave, what exactly is the fault with the HDMI to HDMI lead that has failed? Which pins are now not connected? The DVI.HDMI and VGA>something else are electronic so not much help, but a HDMI>HDMI is not if less than about 10 metres in length. You are claiming to have made one break, so what broke. Simple really. Spikes of this size are really not possible in the ways you are suggesting, unless something very unusual is wrong. If the other ring is different then you need to find out how, as you say it is to the same DB. There is something significant somewhere. This is not a simple EMC issue. You have not answered my questions either, how do the monitors "switch off", is it power, the PC or data?
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    davezawadi (David Stone):

    Right Dave, what exactly is the fault with the HDMI to HDMI lead that has failed? Which pins are now not connected? The DVI.HDMI and VGA>something else are electronic so not much help, but a HDMI>HDMI is not if less than about 10 metres in length. You are claiming to have made one break, so what broke. Simple really. Spikes of this size are really not possible in the ways you are suggesting, unless something very unusual is wrong. If the other ring is different then you need to find out how, as you say it is to the same DB. There is something significant somewhere. This is not a simple EMC issue. You have not answered my questions either, how do the monitors "switch off", is it power, the PC or data?


    I'm sorry David, got quite a lot going on and a fair few questions to respond to so i've done my best. Apologies if I missed one. HDMI to HDMI leads were apparently on 2 of the initial half a dozen PC's that had their leads swapped some weeks ago and had them sent to their IT dept to confirm they were broken and they then sent them replacements (not HDMI to HDMI) so unfortunately i've not seen them myself and like with a lot of other things, i'm relying on good information of what's been done over the past few months that this problem has existed prior to my involvement. The one that went this morning was a HDMI to DVI and that does have electronics inside.I also have a Display port to DVI in front of me that has also gone and will no doubt have electronics in it. My guess, based on what you're saying is the HDMI to HDMI is a red herring. 


    The monitors go black and then the image of whatever you had on your screen prior re-appears so it's not power as it would display the "Acer" start up image if that was the case. It must be the PC signal?


    I'm simply sharing what i'm finding and trying to understand it! You say Spikes of this size are not possible unless something very unusual is wrong but I wouldn't be on here if it wasn't an unusual one! The Sparky that did the install was the first person they contacted and he couldn't make any sense of it either but i'm not sure how much time he gave it.

    I didn't believe the readings I was seeing on the scope either and questioned if i'm missing something. I still might be! Especially with the phase shift which has baffled me. The fact is, it's been going on for months with several people getting involved and the leads are genuinely damaged and the monitors are still turning off so there's obviously something strange going on!


    I can't understand why the lamp would cause the scope to show those spikes on one ring but not on the other? Like I say, it's all fairly new. I think the Board was put in late last year and the office was wired shortly after, by the same sparks, with a ring on one side and a ring on the other. Both the same. Breakers next to each other on the Board, labelled "office left" and "office right" and I have no reason to think there's anything hidden on the circuit after doing R1R2 and insulation resistance.


    I'm running out of ideas..

     


  • Is there anything unusual on the supply side - e.g. a UPS or power factor correction (e.g. the automatic type that switches capacitors in and out of circuit as the perceived PF changes) - that a even a slight change in a load might be nudging between states?


       - Andy.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    AJJewsbury:

    Is there anything unusual on the supply side - e.g. a UPS or power factor correction (e.g. the automatic type that switches capacitors in and out of circuit as the perceived PF changes) - that a even a slight change in a load might be nudging between states?


       - Andy.


    Hi, 

    There is a power factor correction unit that i've had a quick look at but in all honesty, a quick check on the display which read 1.0 as you'd expect, and that was about as far as my knowledge could take me with that particular bit of kit ?

    One thing i'm looking at now, is what other items are on the same phase. The ring on the other side of the office is on L1 and the problem ring is on L2 along with most of the likely suspects that may or may not cause this type of issue. Things like plotters and printers for vinyl applications in a decals dept and lot's of aircon etc. I think the decals dept go home at 16:00 so i'm going to try and go through some process of elimination outside of the ring itself.


  • Could it be that the monitors on the affected ring are on a different phase to the main computer in the server room? And when certain operations take place something in the leads is being frazzled. Just a thought. Sparky Dave looks like we are thinking along the same sort of lines also we posted within a few seconds of each other thats why I didn't see your post till after I posted mine