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New EICR "unsatisfactory" - complete rewire required?!?

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
The lighting circuit has no CPC (earth), this is not uncommon in older houses. For that reason all light fittings are Class 2 i.e. plastic with no metal, and there is a clause in the tenancy agreement which forbids tampering with the light fittings (this is a house we own and rent out).


Previous EICRs did not even mention the lighting circuit because of the Class 2 fittings. I have just got a new EICR with an observation "lighting circuits have little or no earth" and classification code C1 ("Danger present, risk of injury, immediate remedial action required"). The overall assessment says "Unsatisfactory" with the comment "Needs updating to current regs". This can only be fixed by a complete rewire of the whole lighting circuit.


This is pointless, there are no earth connections in the plastic fittings.


Any thoughts? Many thanks.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    John Peckham:

    JPC


    "Tenants should not be touching electrical installations, Class 1 or otherwise. If they do, you really cannot prevent them harming themselves"


    So clearly you cannot use double insulation as a method of protection as the installation is not under effective supervision?



    Nothing is effective as a method of protection if tenants start fiddling with electrical installations. You said as much yourself really, in your post: "even though the circuits have a CPC I find un-earthed light fittings and dimmer switches ". Those fiddled-with metal Class 1 light fittings and dimmer switches are even more dangerous than a Class 2 fixture.


  • 0
    To clarify, I do not think the new legislation changes coding levels for particular faults. It does however seem to require that landlords must
    "ensure that the electrical safety standards are met during any period when the residential premises(8) are occupied under a specified tenancy;"

    And that for the purposes of the legislation,
    “electrical safety standards” means the standards for electrical installations in the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations, published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2018(5);

    Now any sparks worth his or her salt knows that at least half the installations in the land do not meet every aspect of the latest regs, including quite a few new ones, and indeed BS7671 acknowledges that installations to previous versions may be suitable for continued use itself so this is an unusually stringent requirement, however as drafted there is no such wiggle room in the legislation , which is probably not the intention,
  • 0
    "BS7671 acknowledges that installations to previous versions may be suitable for continued use"

    That is the wiggle room
  • 0
    Has any upgrading work been carried out at all? Are the lighting circuits protected by 30 mA RCD?


    Andy B.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Sparkingchip:

    Has any upgrading work been carried out at all? Are the lighting circuits protected by 30 mA RCD?


    Andy B.




    On other circuits, yes, about 15 years ago but not on this lighting circuit except for changing the fittings to Class 2. Yes the lighting circuit is protected by 30mA RCD.


  • 0
    JPC, it sounds as if you are not getting the answer that you wanted!


    Is there RCD protection for the lighting circuit(s)? How difficult is it to get under the floorboards?

    412.1.2 concerns use of double insulation as the sole protective measure, which seems to be the case here. Adequate supervision is given as an example of a method of ensuring the effectiveness of this protective measure, but it also rules it out: "... where a user may change items of equipment without authorization." So that would be at the core of my case if I were Counsel for the estate of the deceased. (A tenant may have changed a lamp fitting, but it might be a visitor who gets electrocuted.)


    Against that, my argument as Counsel for the Landlord would be that the installation is inspected and tested as is and not what it might be if it has been changed, especially if it has been done unlawfully. So if there is no present danger, C3 is appropriate.


    ETA: I note your answer above to the question of the RCD.


    The real question is what do you do about the C1? Unfortunately, there appears to be no independent right of appeal. On the basis of the C1 (or a C2) the local authority may serve a remedial notice and only at that stage is there a right of appeal (to the Property Chamber of the First-tier Tribunal). The problem now is presenting evidence to show that the C1 was inappropriate.


    You could get another EICR and hope for a C3, but by now your tenant should have a copy of the existing report and would be perfectly entitled to seek the assistance of the local authority.


    So the least bad solution might be to rewire the circuit.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Chris Pearson:

    So the least bad solution might be to rewire the circuit.


    The tenant does NOT want that. I have talked to her and she is happy that the electrics are safe (it passed EICR five years ago and nothing has changed). She works from home and has children. Re-wiring would be very disruptive and very dusty because wires are buried in the wall and not conduited. The house is full of furniture which would have to be removed. It would be a nightmare for her.


    If the house was between tenants and empty I might agree.


     


  • 0
    JPCoetzee:
    Chris Pearson:

    So the least bad solution might be to rewire the circuit.


    The tenant does NOT want that. I have talked to her and she is happy that the electrics are safe (it passed EICR five years ago and nothing has changed). She works from home and has children. Re-wiring would be very disruptive and very dusty because wires are buried in the wall and not conduited. The house is full of furniture which would have to be removed. It would be a nightmare for her.


    If the house was between tenants and empty I might agree.




    So you're happy; the tenant is happy and won't dob you in to the Council: all you need now is a happy electrician. Perhaps call back the one who did the last EICR?


  • 0
    John Peckham:

    JPC


    "Tenants should not be touching electrical installations, Class 1 or otherwise. If they do, you really cannot prevent them harming themselves"


    So clearly you cannot use double insulation as a method of protection as the installation is not under effective supervision?


    John, I also note 411.3.1.1 - CPC required at every point in wiring with the exception of the two-core between a ceiling rose and a pendant lamp holder.


    Would your code be influenced by the presence of RCD protection? (I realize that it wouldn't stop a class I light fitting being live until somebody provided a pathway to Earth.)


  • 0
    JPCoetzee:

    Re-wiring would be very disruptive and very dusty because wires are buried in the wall and not conduited.


    Then the new stuff goes in plastic minitrunking on the surface (with sufficient fire-resisting retaining clips).

    Or if the ceiling voids are reasonably accessible*, and the only chasing required is switch drops, leave spare cable in the void and use a ceiling-mounted pull switch, or one of the wireless switch systems. *If bedroom carpets have to be lifted, put the tenant in a hotel for a night and tell the sparkies to work a night shift, including moving stuff.


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