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The famous supplier of plumbing, electrical and D.I.Y. stuff has removed all of its laminated catalogues that were previously on display, and some staff are wearing those sweaty black plastic gloves. Also the short pencils are no more. Also there is a one metre distance rule being enforced.


Z.
  • 0

    mapj1:

    I think if it reaches the state of having the next generation paying back loans for the next 50 years to have no-one working for this one, and indeed a rise in assaults, stress related illness, divorce and so forth due to inactivity, we have rather missed the point altogether, I hope someone is properly calculating the cost of casualties that will arise.

    Even at a million pounds a life it is looking expensive to only save half a million fatalities.




    I'm glad you said that. I've been quietly pondering if things might not have been a lot easier if we'd just isolated all those who were particularly at risk and let everyone else go about as normal (a bit like the old measles parties) then hopefully within a few weeks we'd have immunity across the bulk of the population so the virus would find it a lot harder to spread and then could 'release' the vulnerable bit by bit as intensive care spaces were available. Not an easy decision of course and that approach could back-fire badly if isolation of the vulnerable couldn't be made effective. But on the other hand with no vaccine on the horizon it's likely that everyone will be exposed it eventually so perhaps the perceived emphasis should be more on managing those who will need extra help rather than trying to "stop" its spread.


    As for financial costs, I guess many value a life at about £1M - but in terms of justifying costs of treatment I'm told NICE usually start at just £20,000 per patient annum. The £350bn government package is likely only the tip of the iceberg to the economy - so how much per life? and how many of those lives would have been lost anyway in a similar timescale due to 'flu or other causes. I don't wish to sound harsh, but perhaps questions that need debating.


       - Andy.

  • 0

    Alan Capon:

    Interesting. Our government is closing our island to non-residents from 9am tomorrow, following the first person to test positive for coved-19 without a recent off-island travel history. Returning residents have to spend 14 days in quarantine at home, or face possible prosecution. We are providing no-supply and emergency response cover from home from tomorrow. 


    Regards,


    Alan. 




    That means a wedding cancelled that I was going to later this year, it's down to the bride and groom in a Registry Office with a couple of witnesses at the moment.


    Andy B.

  • 0
     
    I'm glad you said that. I've been quietly pondering if things might not have been a lot easier if we'd just isolated all those who were particularly at risk and let everyone else go about as normal (a bit like the old measles parties) then hopefully within a few weeks we'd have immunity across the bulk of the population so the virus would find it a lot harder to spread and then could 'release' the vulnerable bit by bit as intensive care spaces were available. Not an easy decision of course and that approach could back-fire badly if isolation of the vulnerable couldn't be made effective. But on the other hand with no vaccine on the horizon it's likely that everyone will be exposed it eventually so perhaps the perceived emphasis should be more on managing those who will need extra help rather than trying to "stop" its spread.


       - Andy.


     



    There are an awful lot of people in the UK who have chronic health conditions, that are not normally life-threatening.  For instance, there are about 5.4 million people in the UK who receive regular treatment for asthma  https://www.asthma.org.uk/about/media/facts-and-statistics/.  If you add up all of the people who could end up in hospital with complications to conditions that are normally well managed, that gives an huge number who would be in the isolation category.

     

  • 0
    Nice solid good quality electrical distribution points in the French military type field hospitals.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8140823/France-building-military-field-hospitals-world-intensifies-battle-against-coronavirus.html



    Z.
  • 0
    The UK govt's field hospitals are made by Marshalls of Cambridge (  link ) and are actually surprisingly quick to put up and very solid shelters  to use, including such things as NMR scanning and CAT. (we borrowed a small piece of one as a mobile shelter and HQ for a collaborative job a few years ago, really good to chill out in.)


    I imagine MOD  are now wondering whether they actually bought enough of them, and if there are enough places they can pitch one.
  • 0

    mapj1:

    ... including such things as NMR scanning and CAT. 




    Gosh, that's old fashioned! We have to say "magnetic resonance imaging" these days because "nuclear magnetic resonance" would scare people. ?

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    I suspect what we really need to do, is work out what we really need to do


    If, as is credible,  we see an exponential rise in cases, then a fairly predictable proportion of those are going to:


    1 - have no effect discernable beyond a feeling akin to flue,


    2 - have a moderately serious effect that may need basic medical intervention up to a level of ventilation (for breathing assistance)


    3 - have a very serious effect needing full blown ITU capability to preserve life


    4 - will peg out


    We can't really do much with 1 or 4


    We can reduce the cases in 3, by providing temporary facilities in 2


    For me, that would sensibly suggest using resources we already have with minor modifications - as an example, we won't be having many visitors, so we have a stack of spare hotel capacity - and hotel bedrooms are ideal single person wards  - just need to deploy a bit of local breathing air and O2 - a basic compressor and pressure swing adsorber will give you both, probably matched to a mobile generator if required.


    That presumes we can deploy ventilators - but keep in mind a basic ventilator is a nurse with a bagging set - the next step is a fluid amplification device  in order to govern pneumatic functions - circa 1960's technology with no moving parts - until we get to modern microprocessor sets.


    The big problem to me seems to be numbers of available personnel - that will govern just what emergency facilities we need to deploy. No point having lots of field hospitals of we don't have enough Medico's to staff it


    The next big problem will be the economics - can we afford to do this, and if not, should we do this.


    Obviously the situation regarding the rise in the number of cases will improve, the less people go mincing about the place


    Regards


    OMS
  • 0

    OMS:

    The big problem to me seems to be numbers of available personnel - that will govern just what emergency facilities we need to deploy. No point having lots of field hospitals of we don't have enough Medico's to staff it


    The next big problem will be the economics - can we afford to do this, and if not, should we do this?




    I strongly suspect that a shortage of personnel will be the limiting factor.


    Affordability? No problem - just print money. ?

  • 0
    We will however have loads of folk available who are used to making beds in hotels, emptying bins, swabbing the deck and so on, which is not glamorous, but certainly needs to be done more often than normal now, and other folk who are used to making and serving food, many of whom will also have basic 1st aid training. For the less serious isolate and watch over cases they could be re-purposed to free up actual  nurses for actual nursing.

    Similarly, as supermarkets struggle for delivery drivers, there must be loads of folk who can at least drive a 7,5 tonner who could, or if you do not like that, under employed taxi drivers.


    Problem is we lack a national skills directory we do not know who can actually do what, so we assume it is nothing, though actually that is quite far from the truth.


    Having had to design electronics to go into an NMR scanner, I am perhaps less scared than some by the N-word (the problem is you must not perturb the magnetic fields so no ferrite, no iron, no nickel plate..)  and indeed when looking at the RF fields that emanate from the thing, compared to the normal safe exposure limits, not afraid of a few other words either...


    (As an example of less useful skills, as well as the 1st aid and dangerous wiring, and a license to drive steam rollers, I can abseil and  design certain types of military hardware, but I cannot see how either of those  last three fit in to the current emergency. )



  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Sure Mike,


    Business all over the country is busy ringing up government to see what we can help out with 


    regards


    OMS

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