Rules and Guidelines
Want to participate in the discussions? Please read our Community Rules and Guidelines. Need some help? Visit Support and Answers.

  • State Not Answered
  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 18 replies
  • Subscribers 27 subscribers
  • Views 1815 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Options
You may also be interested in
This discussion is locked.
You cannot post a reply to this discussion. If you have a question start a new discussion

Earth Continuity Test and Polarity Test following when replacing low voltage single phase fixed electrical equipment

Rob Bain
Hi all,

Would appreciate your thoughts on the need to undertake Earth Continuity tests and Polarity tests following replacement of single phase low voltage fixed electrical equipment such as tea boilers / heating pumps / immersion heaters etc, that are supplied either from a switched and/or fused connection unit or an isolator. The existing electrical supply cable is going to be re-used as the equipment being replaced will be like for like, so there is no increase in load, no requirement to undertake a design.

This enquiry has been put forward as it is anticipated that (some) engineers, who have a mechanical background but with limited electrical knowledge (safe isolation), would be able to carry out the replacement of certain items of plant once they have completed some competency training followed by assessment and sign off by the company's NIC EIC QS. 


Thanks in advance.

Rob
  • 0



    If a customer uses the services of a NICEIC registered contractor it seems reasonable that they will expect the electrical work to be carried out by a trained and competent electrician with appropriate qualifications for the level they are working at.




    Maybe in an ideal world, but it is not the case in practice. It is equally likely that the cable will be pulled in and the screws  hammered home by someone 'in training'  following long distance instructions, and supervised by no-one especially closely. The give away is when a different person comes along to 'do the inspection for the certificate'  for a really trivial job . This tells you the installer was not able to test their own work.

    And that is before we note that there are those who are indeed trained and really by all measures should be competent, who can still create some remarkably poor installations.


  • 0

    Sparkingchip:

    It seemed an odd question on first reading it.


    A firm that is an NICEIC registered electrical contractor wants to get some of the non-electricians it employs to do minor electrical work, presumably for paying customers, on the basis that the QS and the firm will take responsibility for ensuring the work completed by these people who are not formally qualified as electricians is satisfactory.


    Then there is the question as to what testing should be carried out and certification produced.


    Both of these matters are something that should be asked of the QS, is the QS going to accept the responsibility of supervising these non-electricians when they are undertaking electrical work for customers and being qualified in design, erection and verification the QS should know the answer as to what testing and paperwork will be required for the company’s and customers records.


    So perhaps the question should be, what testing and certification to the firms electricians do when they undertake such work should be asked?


    Given the list of appliances given as an example perhaps it would be better to get the electricians to do the plumbing, rather than the plumbers do do the electrical work?


     Andy Betteridge 




     

  • 0
    Have a look at the EAS document.


    Jump to the last page which is 36.


    The work is medium risk, being Electrical work defined as Minor Works in an occupied building – subject to safe isolation procedures documented and implemented.


    The person who carries out the electrical work should be a Level 2 Operative (instructed person: experienced, trusted) with periodic involvement of the QS/RP on site.


    So to comply with the requirements placed on your firm as a NICEIC registered contractor it seems that the guys doing the minor electrical works should be qualified with an electrical level 2 qualification if they are working without constant supervision.


    Andy Betteridge 




  • 0
    Hi Andy,

    I appreciate your reply and the information provided, be rest assured that I have also reviewed the NICEIC process, to ensure that we are not going outside of the registration requirements. Also to double check I have looked at the interpretation of minor works in an occupied building, which BS7671 states is "additions and alterations to an installation that do not extend to the provision of a new circuit". All this is good information for me to collate a reply to my Senior Authorising Engineer before the business actually go down the road of instructing the mechanical engineers to complete any electrical works which they feel is outside of their competency limits .


    Thanks again 

    Rob
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    there right or wrong when it comes to that?

    I think (I've seen) 90% of  electricians won't bend or twist a single stranded cable before introducing it inside terminal..

     


  • 0
    Hi.


    After reading some of these posts it seems most are making the assumption, that the installation was correct before you started with your minor works,


    But once you have fitted something new to an old circuit, you become responsible for it.  As for polarity we all check we have connected every thing as it should be.  But a polarity check makes sure everything in the circuit  before our work was correct. Without a polarity check a switch or MCB could be in the neutral and all we have done is added a little flex. but would leave you responsible for any problems in the future.


    as for the ZS reading just this Friday, I was tasked with fitting a switch fuse spur for a garage door my R1 + R2 was just 0.11 ohms, but ZS was 1.74 ohms too high for the protective device.  When I checked the supply cable to garage the sub main protective device, was all ready compromised. so the protective device would not operate in time. so left my work disconnected even though I had a lot of pressure from my line manager to connect it,


    so I see testing firstly protecting you from prosecution, then the customer who is the final user from harm. so my thoughts are its extremely important to do tests regardless on how small an input you have made to a circuit.
  • 0
    This is a description of what is wrong with the whole QS system employed by the NICEIC. In fact, there is no quality checking at all, and the person issuing the certificate will have to "make up" the test numbers on the minor works form unless your "non-electrician" can measure them correctly with the appropriate test equipment. A Zs measurement and a polarity check really are the minimum even for this kind of job, along with a proper inspection of the existing circuit.
  • 0

    believe that there are no untrained people carrying out electrical works any more since BS 7671:2018 only recognises three type of people skilled, instructed and ordinary. They’re no longer accepting competent as enough knowledge.


Join us to get the best from IET EngX.

Joining EngX lets you personalise your experience so you stay up to date on the topics that interest you, plus you’ll be able to make connections who are looking to collaborate, exchange ideas and more.

Join us Not now

Community Rules & Guidelines