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Fluorescent light toubles

Kelly Marie Angel
My kitchen fluorescent lamp which is 6 foot 100 watt unit wouldn't light tonite the starter flickered but no sign of any tube activity. It was very cold in the kitchen so I put the boiler on which warmed things up nicely I tried the tube again and although a bit sluggish it lit ( maybe my swearing at it helped) my question is do you think it's just because the tubes old and doesn't like the cold  or is there something else going on?
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    Kelly Marie:

    Hi PW235  The reasons for not wanting to go for LEDs is partly because I just don't like the look of them the flickeryness bothers me a bit the main reason is that this technology has been forced on us by the green brigade the only 2 greenies I've met in real life were so aggressive in telling me what I can and can't use they were both really nasty about it one was a bloke at work the other was a distant relative. Wwhen people get nasty with me like that I dig my heals in and won't do what they say. Incidentally I have a decent collection of incandescent bulbs now donated to me by friends who are going down the CFL/LED route. Also  a real bulb in my standard lamp over my chair gives a welcome bit of extra warmth 




    Yes I have also noticed with some L.E.D. lighting, there is a perceptible high frequency strobing effect. Tungsten lamps can be very useful when producing heat and light, especially if used with tropical fish in the lighting hood or over a terrarium as well.


    Z.


     

  • 0

    Kelly Marie:

    Hi PW235  The reasons for not wanting to go for LEDs is partly because I just don't like the look of them the flickeryness bothers me a bit the main reason is that this technology has been forced on us by the green brigade the only 2 greenies I've met in real life were so aggressive in telling me what I can and can't use they were both really nasty about it one was a bloke at work the other was a distant relative. Wwhen people get nasty with me like that I dig my heals in and won't do what they say. Incidentally I have a decent collection of incandescent bulbs now donated to me by friends who are going down the CFL/LED route. Also  a real bulb in my standard lamp over my chair gives a welcome bit of extra warmth 




    Interesting, I can't say I've noticed any flicker in LED products other than when they were still a relatively new technology.

    Sorry to hear of those unfortunately horrid folks.


    Pete

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    I have occasionally noticed flicker from LEDs - not directly but by fast movement being made to look jerky (stroboscopic effect) - in my case when sharpening a knife on a carborundum stone. I guess that's the same effect as from the old fluorescents they were always warning us about (and the need to feed workshop lighting from all three phases etc) although the frequencies might differ. As far as I can gather some white LEDs work on a similar principle to fluorescents - i.e. UV rather than visible light is initially produced and that's used to make phosphor glow to produce visible white light. So in principle flicker from an LED shouldn't be any worse than from and old switch-start fluorescent - probably somewhat less noticeable as the basic LED frequency is likely to be higher than than the fluorescent's 50Hz - notwithstanding slight differences in the phosphor mix.

       - Andy.

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    If it's 6ft then they special starters as do 8 ft fittings.They also made 6ft fittings in matched pairs just to make difficult (lead/lag PF correction) which often need yet another starter. You will find it difficult to find 8ft tubes but 6ft should be available in good DIY stores.
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    I hope that my mate has still got some 6 foot tubes in his stock room however the tube in my kitchen light seems to be behaving itself again now  the only thing I did to it was to take out the starter and refit it maybe that was enough. Normcall what do you mean about matched pairs are you referring to the twin tube fittings with a capacitor in series with one tube or something else? I know that in years gone by there have been some interesting circuit arrangement in use
  • 0

    AJJewsbury:

    I have occasionally noticed flicker from LEDs - not directly but by fast movement being made to look jerky (stroboscopic effect) - in my case when sharpening a knife on a carborundum stone. I guess that's the same effect as from the old fluorescents they were always warning us about (and the need to feed workshop lighting from all three phases etc) although the frequencies might differ. As far as I can gather some white LEDs work on a similar principle to fluorescents - i.e. UV rather than visible light is initially produced and that's used to make phosphor glow to produce visible white light. So in principle flicker from an LED shouldn't be any worse than from and old switch-start fluorescent - probably somewhat less noticeable as the basic LED frequency is likely to be higher than than the fluorescent's 50Hz - notwithstanding slight differences in the phosphor mix.

       - Andy.

     




     

    If I may add a personal observation or two.


    I have noticed that LED lamps designed to be dimmable tend to have a flicker (which becomes more pronounced as you dim them) whereas non-dimmable types do not. I presume this is because they are designed so that the thyristor dimmer can chop the output waveform whereas non-dimmable types rectify the mains input - or something like that - does anyone have any intimate knowledge of this?


    Don't kid yourselves that tungsten filament lamps are totally flicker free; they are not. Remember those "strobo-disks" you could once get to check the speed of gramophone turntables? They worked quite well under tungsten light.
  • 0

    Kelly Marie:

    I hope that my mate has still got some 6 foot tubes in his stock room however the tube in my kitchen light seems to be behaving itself again now  the only thing I did to it was to take out the starter and refit it maybe that was enough. . .




     

    It is more that possible that in a cold and occasionally damp environment some corrosion can take place on the contacts. You may well have fixed the problem for several years.
  • 0

    mapj1:

    . . .

    But as noted above, an LED fitting in the same place will be about half the current, for a similar brightness, so given the costs, the days of  just replacing tubes are probably numbered.




     

    To achieve the same brightness you may need to replace the whole fitting with a complete LED design. Plug-in LED replacements for fluorescent tubes are available but, though they use less than half the power, they produce less light than the fluorescent tubes they replace. A 1·5 m replacement LED tube, for instance, gives barely more light than a 1·2 m fluorescent.

    https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTT524DL.html


    LED is still a developing technology and brighter version may well emerge in due course.
  • 0
    The 'twin packs' of 6ft fittings were produced mainly for commercial projects. They were single 6ft fittings sold in pairs - one lead/one lag - to correct the power factor when used in shops/factories which often had 3 phase supplies and getting the PF as near to unity could save money.
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    AJJewsbury:

    I have occasionally noticed flicker from LEDs ...




    Now you mention it, whilst drilling the fixing holes for a back box today and using a head torch for illumination (no mains lighting for obvious reasons) I thought of this and noticed that my drill appeared to be going backwards; so clearly, even battery powered LEDs must flicker.

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