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Electrical outages. cyber attacks ?

What's the chances of the power outages and airport problems being cyber attacks.     Is that possible.   I would think so  ?


Gary

  • Low grid inertia looks like the underlying culprit to me. A steady move away from large synchronised sets as a result of driving towards CO2 emission limits (ie little/ no coal fired and preference for renewables) coupled with about 2000MW of nuclear units (ie big low carbon generators) being on long term outage is pushing the grid to its limits. National Grids automatic protection seems to have worked well in stoppping the entire grid falling over - maybe there's some post event questions to ask about what the sequence of load shedding is (dropping domestic consumers seems far more preferable than dropping hospitals and national infrastructure).
  • "dropping domestic consumers seems far more preferable than dropping hospitals and national infrastructure"

    I suspect the grid management can't differentiate. Either a whole town goes or it doesn't.

  • davezawadi:

    I have talked about this before on the forum and elsewhere. If one looks at the grid status at the moment it is about 27% wind and 24% gas turbines. The wind is gusty and so the peak capacity from it may be 50%, as there is no particular mechanism to control the output from a synchronous wind turbine.  This puts a huge problem on the grid and stability is simply not possible, leading to automatic shutdowns. . . 




    A couple of corrections here. Wind turbines are actually asynchronous generators. Although they have a significant mechanical inertia, their grid connection is through an inverter, so none of the mechanical inertia counts. We used to be able to ride through issues like these, the trouble is that the majority of the inertia was in the coal fired stations that have been closed and mostly demolished. 


    When you have generating sets trip, the frequency falls and you have two options - add more generation, or reduce the load to match the available generation. It looks like the first trip yesterday was going to be survivable, however, the second trip of generating plant was not. With the frequency falling rapidly, automatic  “demand reduction” relays will operate at certain agreed frequency points, and reduce the load (in fairly large chunks) until the system frequency recovers. This obviously worked as intended, as the majority of the country kept its power and reconnection time was fairly rapid. The only thing to look at from Grid’s point of view is I suspect whether too much load was cut away. However that is a very subjective question and not the easiest to find an answer to. What is more to the point, is the reason for the second trip, which just happened to be a wind farm. 


    Regards,


    Alan. 


  • Mitch:

    . . . maybe there's some post event questions to ask about what the sequence of load shedding is (dropping domestic consumers seems far more preferable than dropping hospitals and national infrastructure. . . 




    Yes, but the Electricity Supply Industry can not be responsible for a standby generator that did not start when needed (albeit at a hospital) or an electric locomotive where the driver allegedly does not have the ability to restart their train following a loss of traction power, just to pick two examples. 


    Regards,


    Alan. 


  • AJJewsbury:

    . . . It would be interesting to know how the grid "decided" which parts of the network to shed load from - in some ways the choices made (e.g. rail traction supplies) might not have been optimal from the bigger picture point of view. . . 


    . . . I wonder how things might have been different if everyone had had smart meters installed - in theory then the grid could have responded by directing , via the smart meter network, low priority appliances to shut down - so spreading the load shedding almost invisibly across the whole network possibly avoiding the need for complete power cuts for anyone. . . 




    The decision of which bits of network to shed is made by the DNOs, although the “how much” at what value of frequency will be set in the Grid Code. 


    On on your other point, I am not sure that Smart Meters are going to be quick enough to implement this drastic action. For a small drop, fair enough, but having seen the frequency graph from last night, time would be something there was not a great deal of. 


    Regards,


    Alan. 


  • Harry Macdonald:

    "dropping domestic consumers seems far more preferable than dropping hospitals and national infrastructure"

    I suspect the grid management can't differentiate. Either a whole town goes or it doesn't.



    I agree, under present the circumstances, the grid is either "on" or  "off" over a considerable area, without any means to select consumers by priority or need.

    Outside of THIS forum I have met far too many people who do not understand the need for rapid load and automatic load shedding covering wide areas.

    "they should have given some warning" "cut of without consultation" and similar remarks.

    I have even met persons whom seem to think that individual loads are under some sort of remote control "they would have to leave the heater in babies room on"  and my favourite "they should not be allowed to turn of lifts in buildings with disable people"
  • I agree. What most don’t understand is that if you can take some drastic action and shed sufficient load, the recovery time is much quicker than with a true black start, when you are starting with nothing. We haven’t done it for many years, and I don’t believe the UK has ever done it. 


    Regards,


    Alan.

  • Alan Capon:

    The decision of which bits of network to shed is made by the DNOs, although the “how much” at what value of frequency will be set in the Grid Code. 




    Is that why SSE's customers were unaffected?

  • Yes. As far as I know, SSE have yet to declare a figure.


    The “emergency” was resolved by 17:40, so I am not sure why the chaos spread throughout the evening. I believe the hospital referred to in the news have issued a press release stating that their backup generators did work, the issue being a circuit breaker supplying the outpatients and x-ray department did not close the backup supplies to those areas. 


    Regards,


    Alan.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    "they should have given some warning" "cut of without consultation" and similar remarks


    I still find it very strange that a lot of people have no plan "B" for the things they place so much reliance on, be it food, heating, electricity, communications, travel etc.


    The first three years of my life were without electricity (I can just remember the oil lamp on the table) and as a teenager the likes of the postal strike, bread shortage, sugar shortage, 50 mph speed limit, petrol ration cards and the three day week with associated black outs. Only heat was from an anthracite Rayburn and I'm told, my early nights were spent in the airing cupboard next to the bare hot water cylinder, so that might explain my attraction to all things copper! 


    I suppose being brought up on a farm, expectations and what you had were both low, so you managed. I miss the inevitable bubble and squeak on Mondays though but not damsons which in season, formed every variety of pudding, including as substitute for sultanas in bread (stale) and butter (home made) pudding. And the perpetual supply of rice pudding to the extent that on being served boiled rice mixed with peas, sweetcorn and orange segments we thought Mother was trying to poison us from following Fanny Craddock's ideas...... Yet alone finding a orphan lamb in the warming oven of the Rayburn......


    Regards


    Grumpy (1956) BOD