Rules and Guidelines
Want to participate in the discussions? Please read our Community Rules and Guidelines. Need some help? Visit Support and Answers.

  • State Not Answered
  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 38 replies
  • Subscribers 26 subscribers
  • Views 3452 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Options
You may also be interested in
This discussion is locked.
You cannot post a reply to this discussion. If you have a question start a new discussion

The last remaining domestic circuits without RCD protection.

Sparkingchip
I prepared an EICR this morning for a two bed flat.


The peak installation has a 30 mA RCD main switch, which surprisingly despite being more than ten years old is a type A, so no RCD issues there.


The off-peak supplies two storage heater circuits run in surface mounted plastic mini trunking without RCD protection, so again no RCD issues. If I were installing the storage heaters with new circuits I would install RCD protection, but there’s no reason to condemn an existing installation.


I am just pondering exactly what can be installed in a domestic installation now without any RCD protection with the 18th Edition of the Wiring Regulations making them a requirement on lighting circuits there cannot be much left on the list.


 Andy B.
  • 0
     



    However if you TT the detached garage is that an option?





    yes, provided you maintain double/reinforced insulation within the garage up to and including the first line RCD (good use for left-over plastic CUs perhaps? )


      - Andy.
  • 0
    Not all domestic lighting circuits require 30mA RCD protection. Only those that supply luminaires, see the Part 2 definition. So you have to have 30mA RCD protection for a Luminaire which may have a secure cover but not on a lighting circuit with lamp holders on pendants where live pins could easily be touched. Now that has to be bonkers.


    JP
  • 0

    John Peckham:

    Not all domestic lighting circuits require 30mA RCD protection. Only those that supply luminaires, see the Part 2 definition. So you have to have 30mA RCD protection for a Luminaire which may have a secure cover but not on a lighting circuit with lamp holders on pendants where live pins could easily be touched. Now that has to be bonkers.


    JP




    But what if you fit a lampshade? Does your lamp holder become a luminaire?

  • 0
    When is a luminaire not a luminaire? (This is a serious question, not a joke!)

    The definition of a luminaire (taken from the IEC website) is: An apparatus which distributes, filters or transforms the light transmitted from one or more lamps and which includes, except the lamps themselves, all the parts necessary for fixing and protecting the lamps and, where necessary, circuit auxiliaries together with the means for connecting them to the electric supply. Depending on your interpretation of this, a pendant light fitting may (or may not) be a luminaire.

    If it is not a luminaire, if a pendant fitting is replaced with a decorative ceiling fitting, does an RCD need to be retrofitted?

    Opinions?

    Alasdair
  • 0
    I always assumed lampholders to be classed as luminaires. Perhaps Mr Peckham is having a little laugh with us. It is a long time since I read the definition.

    It is a long time since I read BS7671 from cover to cover too. Whoops - should not admit that I actually dit that, folk will thing I am a right anorak
  • 0
    David,

    I have also always worked on the assumption that all lampholders are classed as luminaires, hence my question in response to John's comments.

    Alasdair
  • 0

    Alasdair Anderson:

    If it is not a luminaire, if a pendant fitting is replaced with a decorative ceiling fitting, does an RCD need to be retrofitted?

    Opinions?




    No, because the regulations are not retrospective.

  • 0

    Chris Pearson:


     


    Alasdair Anderson:

    If it is not a luminaire, if a pendant fitting is replaced with a decorative ceiling fitting, does an RCD need to be retrofitted?

    Opinions?




    No, because the regulations are not retrospective.



    But if it is an installation to the latest requirements and a pendant has been fitted without an RCD because the installer did not consider it to be a luminaire and this is now replaced with a fitting which is definitely a luminaire and under the regulations to which the installation is considered to meet needs an RCD, what is the status?

    Alasdair

  • 0

    No, because the regulations are not retrospective.



    But the new work (fitting of the new luminaire) would need to comply with current regulations.

      - Andy.

  • 0

    When is a luminaire not a luminaire? (This is a serious question, not a joke!)

    The definition of a luminaire (taken from the IEC website) is: An apparatus which distributes, filters or transforms the light transmitted from one or more lamps and which includes, except the lamps themselves, all the parts necessary for fixing and protecting the lamps and, where necessary, circuit auxiliaries together with the means for connecting them to the electric supply. Depending on your interpretation of this, a pendant light fitting may (or may not) be a luminaire.





    BS 7671's definition is almost identical. It's a good question - to my mind a simple lampholder doesn't distribute, filter or transform light - so would initially seem not to be covered by the definition - but then the same could perhaps be said for a 'well glass' fitting with clear smooth glass (the glass just lets the light straight through unchanged - without altering its distribution, or filtering it or otherwise transforming it in any practical way). The more I read it, the less illuminated I feel.


    Similarly, the usage of the term 'mechanical maintenance' seems to be drifting away from its original definition (presuming it wasn't the intention to prohibit switching off using ordinary light switches before changing a lamp - now the 18th practically demands full isolation for mechanical maintenance).


      - Andy.

Join us to get the best from IET EngX.

Joining EngX lets you personalise your experience so you stay up to date on the topics that interest you, plus you’ll be able to make connections who are looking to collaborate, exchange ideas and more.

Join us Not now

Community Rules & Guidelines