So looking at everything posted so far, things really do boil down to employing or engaging with a "Competent" person! exactly as we have in Reg 16 of the EAWR 1989.

So if its by word of mouth, previous experience of others then people engage with those that the believe gives a good service and compliant installation/job.

Back to the old chestnut of "Proving Competence" many people prove Competence when passing their driving test but still unfortunately have or cause accidents or get caught speeding when we did all know the rules. So electrical persons/electricians/ whatever you want to call them can still obtain JIB/SJIB cards companies gain accreditation to differnt bodies but they will still or perhaps less likley than those not in the schemes still not follow what they have been trained or know what to do.


I think this consultation will not achieve anything, nor will standards of workmanship and compliance with standards improve.

How protected is the title “Electrical Engineer”?


Here is the definition one or more contributors to Wikipedia have come up with:


” Electrical engineers typically hold a degree in electrical engineering or electronic engineering. Practising engineers may have professional certification and be members of a professional body or an international standards organization. These include the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC), the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) and the Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET) (formerly the IEE).”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_engineering

If that is rewritten as”


Electricians typically hold trade qualifications and may have completed an apprenticeship in electrical installation design and installation. Practising electricians may have specific qualifications  and be members of a trade body and also a competent person register. These include NAPIT and the registers operated by Certsure, such as the NICEIC, they may also have membership of the professional body the IET at a defined level.


Is that reasonably accurate?

Sparkingchip,

Yes in some ways its not far off the mark, but "Typically" and  "May " will be the two words that will cause the issues just as we have now.

Not having a go at you as I think your words on this string have been helpful to those reading it.


How on earth the Scot Gov or indeed the voluntary schemes involved hope to do any better then goodness knows. The I.E.T do have a scheme for Electrician EngTech. Something I voluntered to assess applications etc given I came thru the apprenticeship route. I havent excatly been overwhelmed  with applications and to be honest not really seen any real advertisements and promotion of the scheme.


Would that not be another possible solution? Again its all down to consumers buying into things.

The may have completed an apprenticeship could be very contentious.


Career changers such as those leaving the armed forces could be left out in the cold.


If the only way to become an electrician is to start an apprenticeship immediately after leaving school as a teenager then perfectly capable people will be disenfranchised.

Also Wikipedia is mainly edited by Americans, whose idea of degree level qualifications is very different to ours, and also I suspect  their route for folk coming in to trades will be similarly different.


In the UK Engineer is not a protected title either -  there is no entrance exam or thesis to submit, nor penalty for sticking the word Engineer after your name at random. Much as you can put Professor in your title if you run a Punch and Judy booth yes really. So there is a plethora of self-titling  engineers who are really working as gas boiler installers or repair technicians of washing machines.


The suggested text for electricians might apply for the UK, I suspect  not many places elsewhere. If it is important enough it may be better to follow the route of things like medicine and dentistry, and have exams, maybe with only a few places offering approved courses that lead to that. However, I very much doubt if it is worth it,  given we cannot even manage such a registration system for the far smaller pool of professional engineers (or even the very small pool of 'real' professors...  there really are more of the Punch and Judy kind.).


regards

Mike

So the solution seems to be to call yourself an "electrical engineer", and nobody can do anything about it!

I think this is more about Scotland investigating future potential tax revenue raising schemes if it attains independence and the money tap is turned off in Westminister.

No Simon the term "Chartered Engineer" is protected. However, it makes no difference at all to any of the trade bodies who simply say "what's that?". There is a significant disconnect in the industry which has depended on C&G qualifications, of various levels, now greatly "dumbed down" for political reasons because they were too hard (particularly 2391)! It is only too hard if you don't know the stuff properly, and it's now open book and multiple choice.


I was teaching the 18th edition exam for Stroma, along with JP and a couple of others. We found that the candidates had a number of problems. These included even knowing what to look up in the BBB in response to a question because they had no knowledge of the words used, not knowing how to use an index, and similar difficulties. Many had never tried to use the regs before which is strange. In all the exams, no one got 100%, although a few came close. One chap (nameless) passed with all but one question correct, and he had just started being an electrician having previously been a surgeon! He had read the book which I expect helped a fair bit.