Denis McMahon:

I am tired of the arguments we often hear at this time of year, that standards are falling, hence more people are passing or the results are not worth as much as they used to. If would be good if we could have a look at some GCE papers of the 1960s for a side-by-side comparison with papers of these days.

Roy Bowdler:

A Levels and results - does anyone have an opinion relevant to The IET ? 

Denis McMahon:

 It would be good if we could have a look at some GCE papers of the 1960s for a side-by-side comparison with papers of these days.

More 1970s than 1960s but: it was very interesting when my children were sitting their A levels (around 5-6 years ago). Because they both took Maths and Physics I got involved with trying to help them - it was a very interesting exercise. From memory the standard of knowledge seemed very comparable, but the way the questions were asked was very different - and I would suggest it is much better now. As many students find to their cost, you cannot sit a modern A level paper having brushed up past papers the night before, the questions are very cleverly structured to require you to pull together knowledge from right across the two year course. Because of this you will often hear teachers and parents commenting that the step from GCSEs to A levels is much higher than the step from A levels to university level.


So my (totally unscientific and somewhat based on memory) view was that the technical level of the questions was very comparable, but the structure of the questions made them harder - but also more relevant. Thinking as an employer, I was really impressed with the A level questions. (My children were rather less impressed by them!) But as discussed above there's also the marking scheme to throw into the mix.


The good thing was that I now understand a lot of the maths and physics that I didn't get the first time around (and hadn't learned since, as I hadn't happened to have needed it). With the benefit of experience it was much easier to get my head around it this time - it was quite fun keeping just ahead of my children! 


Cheers,


Andy

Alasdair Anderson:

The level of my degree, and in fact whether I even have one, has for a number of years probably been a minor issue when advancing my career relative to my experience and the CPD achieved since I left university.

Unfortunately I think it depends on the role, for my current role (very similar to yours) it's not a question. But when I was working in design roles, up to rather senior design management, with a significant track record in two rather different industries, I was still being rejected at CV selection stage because I didn't have a 1st or 2.1. If I did get through this to interview I tended to be offered a more senior job then the one I'd applied for! * That's actually why I originally applied for CEng, to distract from my dreadful degree at CV selection, it didn't work at all. But it would for the role I'm in now.


Because of this experience I do question companies who claim not to be able to recruit "good" mid career engineers - often they filter CVs based on slightly nebulous reasons. (Many even dafter than this, such as experience of a specific version of a specific CAD system.) Unfortunately the recruitment system is a bit of a game. And, to be fair, it is very difficult. But trying to reduce it to an exact mathematical formula, even though it's understandable why HR departments want to do this, really doesn't work - as you say, in engineering track record should be hugely important.

When I got my present job last year my new employers asked for a copy of my degree certificate, which is entirely in Latin (should really be in Welsh!) Out of interest I ran it through Google translate and discovered it doesn't have my grade on it. So I asked the registry office for the current incarnation of my university if they could confirm my grade, which they couldn't! So I could claim it's anything I like I didn't know whether to laugh or cry...I think it just puts it in context how irrelevant a 37 year old degree grade should be.


Cheers,


Andy

* The best example being where I applied for a senior design engineer role, and in the interview they offered me the design manager's job. Which came as a nasty surprise to the design manager who was sitting on the interview panel. 

Denis McMahon:

A levels are ONE way, not THE way, towards a career in engineering. An A level can be followed by university or an apprenticeship. An apprenticeship does not preclude university later. Apprenticeships are good for practical experience. University courses can include industrial placement, where practical experience can be gained. There is plenty of flexibility. Many teenagers are fed up with school and long for a practical working environment.


I followed all these routes. A levels, then apprenticeship then study for a degree later. I am not pretending that every career decision I made was a good one, but this was a path that suited me well and I don't regret it.