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European recognition of Chartered Engineer Status

EUR ING Alan Foxall
According to a bulletin issed by the European Commission (January 22 2018- Notice to Stakeholders)

'Authorized representatives or responsible people in the United Kingdom will not, as from the withdrawal date, be recognised as authorised representatives or responsible persons.....' . 

My question is as Chartered Engineers are essentially classed a 'Responsible People' will the withdrawal from EU rules mean that CEng will have to seek registration  as Eur Ing to work in or be recognized for work associated with Europe or Internationally.

  • 0
    To reply to Alan, my point about the EC being the UK member of FEANI is that this means that the IET can only get their information second hand through the EC.  FEANI are not an EU organisation, being founded in 1951, six years before the Treaty of Rome which set up the then EEC.  Anyone who has a EUR ING title will therefore retain it after Brexit and the title will be recognised in the EU. There is no indication on the FEANI website of any plans to not recognise CEng, despite the many papers on the impact of a no-deal Brexit in many sectors (it is worth having a look if you have some spare time).

    Whether CEng is recognised in Europe after Brexit is not a question for FEANI (who award the EUR ING title, not CEng), but rather a question for the Government and the EC who are the ones who award CEng (to the extent that when I was accepted after my interview with the IEE I could only title myself as Chartered Electrical Engineer, not being allowed to use the CEng post-nominal until the Engineering Council met nearly six months later! Fortunately the process has been streamlined.)

    With regard to Alan's comments, I agree that the IET have an interest in whether CEng is recognised within the EU but they have no negotiating rights with the EU (and neither do the Engineering Council). Unless there is something in the news I have missed, there is at present no agreement with the EU so what is there that the IET can advise?

    Alasdair
  • 0

    Alasdair Anderson:

    Whether CEng is recognised in Europe after Brexit is not a question for FEANI (who award the EUR ING title, not CEng), but rather a question for the Government and the EC who are the ones who award CEng

    ....

    With regard to Alan's comments, I agree that the IET have an interest in whether CEng is recognised within the EU but they have no negotiating rights with the EU (and neither do the Engineering Council). Unless there is something in the news I have missed, there is at present no agreement with the EU so what is there that the IET can advise?

    Alasdair




    Yes, this is indeed true. However the government seem unable to answer even the most basic questions on Brexit so I doubt they will have an answer to this!  It is also worth noting that Theresa May has been withdrawing from membership of organisations such as EURATOM which are nothing to do with the EU but have "Europe" in their name.

    I'm an IEng, so not personally concerned about Eur Ing,  I would like to know if I can still go and comission a machine in Germany after Brexit. It's issues like this where in my opinion the IET should have been lobbying the government and giving advice to the members.  Perhaps they have, and I have just not been aware of it.

    John.

  • 0
    In reply of various comments on this subject.

    The Engineering Council are the UK partner or member of FEANI, which is made up of a number of national registration bodies like the EC. My point is that all EC registration (Eng Tech IEng & CEng) are recognized by other nations (including the EU) by  virtue of the EC membership of FEANI. So I would have thought that the future relationship between the UK and EU would have been discussed between the EC and FEANI and our own Government to come to an opinion of whether this exisiting recognition continues or changes. However (and this is my main query) I have seen nothing from the IET or the EC on this issue, and it seems ; to me, that the EC etc are sitting on the fence to see what happens, I hope that I am wrong?

    Alan Foxall CEng FIET
  • 0
    Alan,

    I note your comments but as FEANI is not an EU organisation but rather a European (in the sense that it is representing the countries which form the continent) one, why would Brexit cause them (FEANI) to change their recognition of CEng, IEng and Eng Tech?

    Alasdair
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    More:

    https://www.tuttoingegnere.it/en/euring



    Also(Italian):
    https://www.teknoring.com/news/abilitazione-professionale/riconoscimenti-titoli-professionali-conseguiti-allestero-la-guida-per-gli-ingegneri/

  • 0
    https://www.hse.gov.uk/managing/competence.htm

    A UK organisation would be very unwise to rely on the fact that someone holds CEng or any other form of UK or international registration as a definitive demonstration of competence. Although in appropriate circumstances this may be useful supporting evidence.  


    If we leave out any political horse trading, protectionism and bureaucratic self-justification that occurs, both within countries and internationally, then jurisdictions committed to similar levels of Health, Safety and environmental protection to the UK, will maintain similar standards.  The politics will just have to play out , albeit perhaps very wastefully, if we have already spent years agreeing common standards.              

  • 0

    Luciano Bacco:
    More:



    https://www.tuttoingegnere.it/en/euring



    Also(Italian):
    https://www.teknoring.com/news/abilitazione-professionale/riconoscimenti-titoli-professionali-conseguiti-allestero-la-guida-per-gli-ingegneri/

     

     




    Thanks for the post!


    I was unaware that "IT Engineer" (perito industriale informatico) is a regulated profession in Italy. It isn't here in the Netherlands.


    FYI There's a European wide list here https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/regprof/index.cfm?action=regprofs&id_country=10&quid=1&mode=asc&maxrows=15

     

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    According  the European Directive 2005/EC only a graduate Industrial Perito can be made equal to an Industrial Engineer in Europe (but not in Italy: he remains Industrial Perito- graduate).

    From database of the Regulated Professions of the European Commission:

    Profession Title: Engineer
    Qualification level: PS3 – Diploma of post-secondary level (3-4 years), Art. 11 d, that is, holding a 3-4 year degree.
    https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/regprof/index.cfm?action=regprof&id_regprof=29365


    Here in Italy we have two types of Industrial Peritoes (Industrial Experts): the graduate one and Diploma one, having a specialist of secondary education at the Engineering Technician standard.

    But here things are quickly changing: in fact a new State Law prescribe that within 2021 all Industrial Peritoes entering the liberal profession. that is willing to work on their own, MUST  hold a newly introduced 3 year degree called " The  Professional Degree" articled in such a way:
    1st year: Theory
    2nd year: on the job
    3rd year: practical training under the supervision of a already well established professional that may be an Engineer or a Graduate Industrial Perito.

    It is good thing, at this point, to point out that here in Italy this "new style" Industrial Perito will not be made equal to the preexisting 3 year  Engineer but it will remain with the denomination of Industrial Perito (graduate)....


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    Alan Foxall:

    Mark

    Eur Ing is a FEANI  registration which is recognized in most of Europe and internationally.  FEANI is a federation of professional that unites national engineering associations from 34 European countries. So at face value the title of Eur Ing is more relevant than CEng in Europe.

    My concern is at that if we leave Europe and  become a third country our professional status will no longer be recognized in the short term. It is bad enough that within the UK the term Engineer is not legally recognized  (unlike architects, barristers etc.,) without losing what the little professional dignity we have left

    There's an interesting 'benefit' of having the EUR ING title, in that you are allowed to put it as part of your official name in a UK passport. This document sets out what titles are permissible, and the relevant sections read:

     




     

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