Hi John Beirne‍ 


Was a recording made of the presentation? I'd be really interested to watch it. ?

Hi Lisa,


Yes a recording was made: https://communities.theiet.org/communities/videos/194/2303. I hope the link opens okay.


Kind regards,


John

Hi John,


Many thanks for posting this, you've given me some ideas for some interesting reading there. By coincidence I think that aligns neatly with some thoughts I've been having over the last few days about the way discussions work on these forums (and all other forums!). And an interesting discussion we've been having in our house about cultural differences (which I'll come on to). Taking the point:

It doesn't take long browsing these forums to see examples of what I think of as the "traditional" UK engineering culture - learn your skill, and when you have it you state simple facts and people should believe you because of your experience. Very much the culture I found when I started in the industry, and is often still very prevalent.  Proponents of this culture would say there is no conflict between this approach and psychological safety as defined in that statement - it's up to other engineers to present a counter argument if they have one, and if they don't well that's their problem. They just need to learn to stand up for themselves.


Of course we know what actually happens. The bright engineers who can generate brilliant ideas through co-operation do one of three things. They either set up their own company away from that attitude and successfully disrupt the market, they give up and become conservation volunteers, or they get very depressed and bitter (and I'm being extremely serious with that last point, I'm sure we've all seen it). Meanwhile engineering projects fail because the old school engineers are walking around making their statements to each other that way x is the only way to do things, and since no-one is disagreeing with them (because that psychological safety is not in place) at best the project runs late / overruns cost / gets scrapped / gets beaten by the competition, at worst serious accidents happen.


So the interesting cultural perspective on this: we've been discussing this recently with our son's Polish girlfriend who is baffled by the behaviour that "the English don't say what they think". Given that I've long worked with Scandinavians, Poles, and (a few years ago now) Germans and seen this different approach it led to us having some very interesting thoughts through this. My theory is that the problem we have in the UK is that far too too often when, frankly, engineers of my generation are speaking bluntly it's actually power play. I noticed this when I worked out that when my past Swedish colleagues said "we must do it like this" it was absolutely fine for me to say "no, we must do it like this instead, because..." A good test is to try that response with a UK engineer - chances are you will get one of the following responses in turn:

• "It's not your decision, it's mine and I'm telling you to do it like this."

• "Are you questioning my professionalism?"

• or they will just walk off.

And there's where psychological safety has stopped existing, innovation dies and (for those who know the classic example where a co-pilot was shouted down for disagreeing with the pilot) the plane crashes into the mountain.


How to deal with this behaviour (in my experience, and I've seen LOTS of it)?

1. Wait for them to get made redundant or retire (a good test of a company is whether such people survive a round of redundancies, it's a good indication of the company culture).

• Change company.

It's really difficult breaking this, it becomes a cycle where organisations breed this behaviour - where you can only get on if you seem supremely confident and put down those who disagree with you. In the long term it's not a problem as those organisations generally fail, but what a waste. And how many engineers give up on the profession in the process.


Personally I'd like to see all engineering managers and senior engineers put through assessment on this, and for those who simply don't get it they can be put in a bubble where they can just do their engineering whilst others deal with the people, or be packed off with a set of golf clubs to spend a merry retirement posting messages on the IET discussion forums telling everyone that engineering's very simple, you "just do it like this" ? But that's only my personal view, let's collaborate and consider all aspects ?


I look forward with interest to see what happens next in this discussion...


Cheers,


Andy

Thank you again John Beirne‍ I shall certainly take a look at that. ?


As always Andy Millar‍ your comments always bring value to the conversation.? 


If there's one thing my mother taught me it was to question the status quo. Not that she meant to mind you! As a child when I asked her a question on something complicated she would always say 'Find out for yourself'. It was only in later years that I realised it was because she didn't know the answer and was too embarrassed to admit it... ?


I think however, there are many people who do not question what they're told and I think a lack of Psychological Safety plays a big part in that both in the workplace and at home.