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Going green

The debate in another thread has shifted to the climate debate, so perhaps we should keep it separate.


Publication bias may be detected by what I think is called a funnel plot. Imagine a funnel lying on its side.


On the X-axis, you have the power of the study - high powered studies are nearer to the truth so they lie in the stem of the funnel.


On the Y-axis you have the finding of each study - whether the activity is beneficial or not. The middle of the neck of the funnel is the best estimate of the true value.


At the left of the plot, the wide bit of the funnel, lie low powered studies. Some will show that the activity is beneficial, some the reverse. So if you look at the risk of smoking, some low powered studies should have shown that it was beneficial. IIRC, studies showing that smoking was beneficial were not published. That may be because the authors chose not to submit, or editors chose not to accept.


I have no idea whether this sort of plot has been done for the climate debate, but it ought to have been.


I accept David Z's argument that the climate has warmed and cooled long before industry appeared (even on a Roman scale), but what bugs me is the doctrine that we cannot afford to get it wrong.


Does anybody here know how man-made energy compares with the amount which arrives from the sun?
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    Chris Pearson:


    Does anybody here know how man-made energy compares with the amount which arrives from the sun?




     

    It's not exactly man made because the fossil fuels we now burn were originally the energy of the sun stored up for a wee while  - if we believe the likes of Max Fordham, a gramme of fossil fuel laid down per second is now being burnt at a rate of 5000kg a second - so probably not sustainable regardless of your view on climate change


    In terms of energy transfer, we get a vast amount of solar energy which we tend not to use - typically we tend to only use about 0.1% of what arrives - that said, it's not so easy to capture it and make it useful


    There is no doubt that we could get this wrong - but wrong is only going to be a bit of a hiccup to the planet and possibly catastrophic to homo sapien  - which may or may not be of consequence


    For sure if it does go wrong, it's all going to get a bit noisy as we scramble around saving "our" tribe  - which will probably do for more souls than a changing climate would


    Personally, I'm for the precautionary principle - and being economic with our resource use is never a bad thing at many levels


    Regards


    OMS
  • Fundamentally there are two questions which must be considered to decide where we should go:

    1. How  sure are we that mans activities are making a significant differene to the whole Earth climate?

    2. Is it possible to make everyone on the Earth follow the mechanism to change the climate in some way, and if they don't can we make a change at all?


    Neither of these questions has ever been answered properly, and are sufficiently difficult to  prevent any sensible discussion anywhere. The UK cannot make any measurable difference whatever we do or don't do because our emissions are about 2% of the total Earth. The present  change is probably 1.5 degrees in the last 150 years, and 2% of this is about 30 thousandths of a degree, much less than the measurment uncertainty. Should we wreck our country to make what is essentially zero effect? That is an entirely political question, not a scientific one.

  • Chris Pearson:

    The debate in another thread has shifted to the climate debate, so perhaps we should keep it separate.




     

    This is not a topic for this forum..


    Jaymack
  • Maybe not, but since it has garnered enough interest I say we should let it run.

    There are already enough places in this world where so-called free speech has been snuffed out, speakers have been no-platformed and the truth has been twisted to shreds to suit the prevailing narrative.

    Let us not allow this to happen here.
  • I have tried several times to start discussions in the Savoy Place Virtual Club:

    https://communities.theiet.org/discussions/viewtopic/807/24813
     
    https://communities.theiet.org/discussions/viewtopic/807/24669
     
    https://communities.theiet.org/discussions/viewtopic/807/24015


    Maybe there will be more activity on here. It's an important topic which requires significant engineering input.


    Best regards


    Roger




  • I'm moving this topic over to the Savoy Place Virtual Club category in the forum as it's not really one for the Wiring Regulations category which is the place to discuss anything related to electrical installation, electrical systems design, BS 7671 and related topics . ?
  • Lisa,

    I tend to agree that it doesn't seem to be right for the Wiring Regulations category, but you will have Roger suspecting a conspiracy as you moved it just after he commented that in the Wiring Regs category it might have more discussion than in the Savoy Place Virtual Club.

    It has actually got me thinking as the Savoy Place Virtual Club doesn't seem to be the right category either. Should we have a new (additional) category for something like "International Engineering" or something similar?

    Alasdair
  • I have avoided posting climate/energy subjects in the wiring regs forum as it is not really the correct place. It is however the most active forum. The true place for climate/energy topics should be in an energy forum as they used to be with the old format. Unfortunately the current energy forums are buried so deep as to be invisible.


    Best regards


    Roger

  • Alasdair Anderson:

    It has actually got me thinking as the Savoy Place Virtual Club doesn't seem to be the right category either. Should we have a new (additional) category for something like "International Engineering" or something similar?

    Alasdair



     

    You read my mind Alasdair... ?


    We are looking to introduce a couple of extra forum categories very shortly and I'm going to suggest that we also create one to house topics related to 'engineering for creating a sustainable future' or something along those lines.


    Any help with naming it would be greatly appreciated! ?

  • Sustainable Engineering?