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UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional enginee...

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UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by Luciano Bacco on Apr 25, 2019 2:23 pm

UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016. UK Engineers who are registered with a PEI are only 30% of the total membership of the PEIs themselves, or about 5% of the total population (5.6 million) of those who regard themselves as working in Engineering (read in the Engineering and Technical Sectors)-see pages 43-44 and 45. See also pages on Mergers and the public voice of engineering.
UK Engineering 2016 [PDF, 2,515KB]
Also:
https://www.engineeringuk.com/media/1576/7444_enguk18_synopsis_standalone_aw.pdf

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by rogerg on Apr 25, 2019 3:55 pm

Fascinating and tragic at the same time - thanks for the links. History keeps telling us the same story.
My thoughts can be implemented very fast for this particular organisation, if the will is there:-
For my £165 I expect to get more than this:-
https://www.theiet.org/membership/becoming-a-member/benefits-of-membership/
The benefits are vague, intangible, largely meaningless to outsiders and about 4 * too much cost for a monthly magazine for most folks (probably like me) who don't need professional registration.
I joined the IET (in 2008, 30 years after starting work) to try and contibute, give something back and now I can't even find my previous posts to this forum where I made various suggestions.
As long as I can afford it (i.e. employed) I will likely stay a member, but you are not going to attract a few million new members (and they are out there) with the current offering, no matter how glossy the cover. Once I retire I would like to stay a member, but only if the cost is reduced by about 90%.

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by Roy Bowdler on Apr 25, 2019 4:45 pm

Luciano, I have referred to the Uff report in several threads since its publication. I have asked The IET Chief Executive Nigel Fine about whether this might lead to any changes. My understanding at a point in time last year, was that there was a constructive dialogue at the Chief Executive level of the three main sponsoring institutions and that other stakeholders had been consulted. I assume but don’t know, that this has been negatively affected by issues at The IMechE including a change of leadership.

There is a long history of reports over many decades recognising issues and difficulties in the governance and promotion of our profession. The creation of the IET around 15 years ago was an attempt to improve the situation, intending as it did to include the IMechE , before they dropped out at a late stage.  A well informed source tells me that ICE had indicated that they might also join in later, but I can’t confirm that.   

Engineering UK publishes an annual report each year. It should not be confused with Engineering Council which has a separate function  https://www.engineeringuk.com/about-us/overview/

It seems from my perspective that almost everybody who is interested has some level of dissatisfaction with current arrangements, but the reasons are so varied as to be almost irreconcilable, so we cannot build a consensus for action.  We have rehearsed some of those differences in this forum.  

I have expressed serious concern about and even direct opposition towards aspects of the status quo, although largely aligned to principles that the IET has set out. Some other people are passionate about seeking legal protection for the title Engineer in the UK and only allowing “chartered type” engineers to use it.  Each of us probably hopes to find a report that aligns with our perspective, in the same way that people read newspapers that reflect our own views.  This might also interest you or other readers if you haven’t seen it already https://www.theengineer.co.uk/this-weeks-poll-status-of-engineers/          

I’m personally far more interested in the getting more good people trained as Engineers and Technicians, then developing their productivity and performance through career. The first definition I found on-line for “status” was “relative social or professional position; standing”. “Relative” is the important word here, so to seek “higher status” is to seek advantage over others who must therefore be of “lower status” than us. The only place that leaves us is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tXBC-71aZs 


 

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by Luciano Bacco on Apr 25, 2019 7:27 pm

These are two good articles ( in my opinion) surely involving the next generation of Engineers and Technicians before ' valve whisperers' leave the industry:

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/q-and-a-feature-upskilling-for-industry-4-0/

https://news.northeastern.edu/2019/04/24/researchers-from-northeastern-mit-facebook-google-microsoft-make-a-case-for-the-importance-of-the-emerging-field-of-machine-behavior/?utm_source=Homepage+Signup+Form&utm_campaign=e8be1e392c-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_04_25_12_54&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_73fbbd3f61-e8be1e392c-278692105
 

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by John Sim on Apr 26, 2019 11:26 am

rogerg:

For my £165 I expect to get more than this:-
https://www.theiet.org/membership/becoming-a-member/benefits-of-membership/
 

Agreed, you should expect more for £ 165 plus the donation to the benevolent fund.
 



The benefits are vague, intangible, largely meaningless to outsiders and about 4 * too much cost for a monthly magazine for most folks (probably like me) who don't need professional registration.

Yes, completely agreed, and the quality of that magazine has also dropped significantly in the last decade too.
 


I joined the IET (in 2008, 30 years after starting work) to try and contribute, give something back and now I can't even find my previous posts to this forum where I made various suggestions.
As long as I can afford it (i.e. employed) I will likely stay a member, but you are not going to attract a few million new members (and they are out there) with the current offering, no matter how glossy the cover. Once I retire I would like to stay a member, but only if the cost is reduced by about 90%.

Retired membership fee is only a 50% discount, assuming that you've had more than ten years membership previously.

Alas, for me, cost of membership vs return hasn't be worthwhile ever, yet I liked to pay in to support electronic engineering.   As the costs have increased, and return diminished even further, I really can't continue to be a member of the IET.

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by Luciano Bacco on Apr 26, 2019 12:29 pm

The cost of the Magazine for the IET. A way to substantially diminish the printing and dispatching costs of the Magazine is to send it to Members via online, in PDF file format. Once done this, the membership subscriptions could be reduced by 20%.
As far as I know, the IMechE spends more than 140,000 pounds per year in order to send its monthly Magazine just to the mailbox of each of its 120,000 Members!...

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by Moshe Waserman CEng on Apr 26, 2019 2:11 pm

Digital magazines can be an option or centralized magazine, one can just log in and read it. But in the world of automation replacing humans and making jobs obsolete, when we stop printing journals one can say we save trees others can say we male people lose jobs and industries to go down. 
I personally haven't read a paper newspaper in more than a decade. I saw the newspaper industry shrink beyond recognition. That's unavoidable in the current society where autonomous vehicles are about to make drivers no longer needed.
I personally like getting the magazine, and that part of the experience of the membership. 
Why people become members of a professional institution.
Professional registration and professional title such as EngTech, IEng, CEng, etc. But it's not the only benefit.

"Belonging to a professional organization helps establish legitimacy when you’re first starting out in the field; this is especially true for freelancers and independent contractors because you’re lacking the professional umbrella of a well-known company name or employer. Being a member of a professional organization carries a degree of respectability when applying for jobs or presenting credentials to potential clients. For many attending, events or functions in a professional organization related to your field will help you get to know colleagues better, interact with competitors and build relationships with potential mentors. At events or online, you’ll be able to chat about current trends, innovations and upcoming training.
Professional organizations can provide steppingstones into additional career opportunities, especially when linked with networking. You may have access to the organization’s database of available jobs, or learn of jobs before they’re officially posted by talking with colleagues working for other companies. Assuming responsibilities within the professional organization can add points to your resume, making you more viable as a job candidate.
Author
Morgan Rush 

 

Moshe Waserman BEET, MCGI, CEng MBCS, FEDIPAdvPra, MIET.

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by Lisa Miles on Apr 26, 2019 5:02 pm

rogerg:

For my £165 I expect to get more than this:-
https://www.theiet.org/membership/becoming-a-member/benefits-of-membership/
The benefits are vague, intangible, largely meaningless to outsiders and about 4 * too much cost for a monthly magazine for most folks (probably like me) who don't need professional registration.
 

Don't forget this too Roger: https://www.theiet.org/membership/manage-your-membership/member-rewards/ Many IET members forget about member rewards. Also I wouldn't underestimate the benefit of IET connect either. I've spoken to many an IET member who has stated that the benefits they've received from the services of IET Connect far outweigh the cost of their membership fee. 
Lisa Miles - Online Community Manager, Engineering Communities

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by Moshe Waserman CEng on Apr 26, 2019 8:48 pm

I would add that one of my jobs in the past for Rockwell International was via job posting on one of the Insitute that I was a member of.
They didn't post the job on any other board, they had selected HR recruiters and the job board at the Institute. 
And also my first job out of the military in the civilian world I remember hiring manager being impressed and happy about the fact that I was an Associate member of the Institute of Engineers and Technicians London UK.
It was an additional factor that contributed to his decision to offer me the job and made me stand out in comparison to other candidates with a similar background.

 
 
 
Moshe Waserman BEET, MCGI, CEng MBCS, FEDIPAdvPra, MIET.

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by Simon Barker on Apr 26, 2019 10:05 pm

I've not been very impressed with the IET member rewards so far.  I did once try to get the special discounted home insurance through Hiscox.  They decided that my little hovel was beneath them, and wouldn't even offer me a quote.

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by Luciano Bacco on Apr 27, 2019 7:12 am

Moshe Waserman CEng:
I would add that one of my jobs in the past for Rockwell International was via job posting on one of the Insitute that I was a member of.
They didn't post the job on any other board, they had selected HR recruiters and the job board at the Institute. 
And also my first job out of the military in the civilian world I remember hiring manager being impressed and happy about the fact that I was an Associate member of the Institute of Engineers and Technicians London UK.
It was an additional factor that contributed to his decision to offer me the job and made me stand out in comparison to other candidates with a similar background.

 
 Me too! AM in 1975, M in 1979.
 

 
Attached files

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by Luciano Bacco on Apr 27, 2019 6:36 pm

Moshe Waserman CEng:
Digital magazines can be an option or centralized magazine, one can just log in and read it. But in the world of automation replacing humans and making jobs obsolete, when we stop printing journals one can say we save trees others can say we male people lose jobs and industries to go down. 
I personally haven't read a paper newspaper in more than a decade. I saw the newspaper industry shrink beyond recognition. That's unavoidable in the current society where autonomous vehicles are about to make drivers no longer needed.
I personally like getting the magazine, and that part of the experience of the membership. 
Why people become members of a professional institution.
Professional registration and professional title such as EngTech, IEng, CEng, etc. But it's not the only benefit.

"Belonging to a professional organization helps establish legitimacy when you’re first starting out in the field; this is especially true for freelancers and independent contractors because you’re lacking the professional umbrella of a well-known company name or employer. Being a member of a professional organization carries a degree of respectability when applying for jobs or presenting credentials to potential clients. For many attending, events or functions in a professional organization related to your field will help you get to know colleagues better, interact with competitors and build relationships with potential mentors. At events or online, you’ll be able to chat about current trends, innovations and upcoming training.
Professional organizations can provide steppingstones into additional career opportunities, especially when linked with networking. You may have access to the organization’s database of available jobs, or learn of jobs before they’re officially posted by talking with colleagues working for other companies. Assuming responsibilities within the professional organization can add points to your resume, making you more viable as a job candidate.
Author
Morgan Rush 


Somebody is thinking differently:

Is Engineering really that bad career wise in the UK?

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2438220

 

 

 

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by Moshe Waserman CEng on Apr 28, 2019 4:47 pm

Luciano hi,

Did you get the TEng with your corporate Member grade, if my memory serves me well it was automatic, once you achived corporate membership?
I remeber AM was intitled for EngTech and Member for TEng registratin.

I joined in 1984.

Regards,

Moshe Waserman BEET, MCGI, CEng MBCS, FEDIPAdvPra, MIET.

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by Luciano Bacco on Apr 29, 2019 6:12 am

Yes, I did, even if here in Italy it was of no practical utility so I stopped here with further registrations. Those years I was in strict contact with J.Morgan, CEng MIMechE, a now late Institute's officer. We became good friends and he and his wife came several times to pay me visits here in Venice. I was also the author of some articles printed in the Institute's Journal in those years..I'm now a retired electrical and electronics engineer 71 years old and to continue keeping me involved in engineering, science and technology matters I have set up my own blog whose link appears below. I love doing this: it is giving me great satisfaction!

https://genuinebritishengineer.wordpress.com/
 

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by Moshe Waserman CEng on Apr 30, 2019 9:51 pm

In my case living in high immigrant populations, foreign credentials had value as almost everyone was immigrant in my town and the majority of adults held educational, vocational, professional credentials from other countries.
Also the majority of professional literature, textbooks. magazines all was in the English language. 
Employers and official agencies, etc all had opened mind when it came to hiring someone with credentials from overseas. Providers of higher or professional education also offered one-year courses in regulated professions for professional "Hasava" retraining. For example, A City & Guilds Technician Certificate was fully recognized for one to be registered with the chamber of Technicians.
British Engineers (even if not UK citizen) enjoyed a very high level of respect and recognition.

 
Moshe Waserman BEET, MCGI, CEng MBCS, FEDIPAdvPra, MIET.

Re: UK Engineering 2016: An Independent review. An independent review of UK professional engineering commissioned by the IET, ICE and IMechE in 2016.

Posted by Luciano Bacco on Apr 30, 2019 10:54 pm

Here in Italy no foreign Academic/Professional Qualification is automatically recognized: here we have STATE ones and so foreign ones must be eventually recognized by the EU Directive 2005/36. Here are some examples of some very often partial recognizes: British ones are almost inexistent. Unfortunately, British Academic/Professional qualifications have a low consideration in this country, so hardly they can be recognized. Here the Professions are governed by State "Orders" so the engineering profession is regulated by the "Consiglio degli Ingegneri "CNI". The main difference between the two systems is that British Engineering Professional Qualifications are COMPETENCE oriented whilst the Italian ones  are Academic oriented, in fact, to become a " Dottore Ingegnere " (Dott Ing) you MUST hold a 3 or 5- year degree + successfully passing a quite theoretical State Examination-no period of practical experience is required. So the Italian Engineer is also a "doctoral" one!..Title "Dott Ing" is protected by State Laws. Another world, another planet!!...
https://www.giustizia.it/giustizia/it/mg_1_32.wp?all=true
https://www.tuttoingegnere.it/


 

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