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CEng/IEng
Olutayo
10 Posts
Question
Hi all,
If one submits an application for CEng but not qualified and the assessor/interviewer is of the opinion that the applicant is qualified for IEng, will the applicant be given rejection letter or be awarded IEng?
13 Replies
Alex Barrett
728 Posts
I was offered a "consolation prize" of IEng after applying for CEng, for what it's worth.
Paul Gould
8 Posts
Normal process is to reject CEng application with reasons and future actions. If the applicant is directed to IEng then application is  for this is necessary but will go directly to interview since the application has been seen by committee previously.
Hi - IEng is not a consolation prize by any measure. If your application for CEng has been turned down it is because you have failed to demonstrate that you have the required competences.
Declines are not made lightly - marginal applications generally have more time and discussion by the Panel.
As has been said so many times - CEng and IEng are of equal value but they are different - it’s all down to a bunch of academics who have manipulated the system and have forced the IEng into a stepping stone - it’s wrong but they are blind to it.
If you haven’t consult a PRA. If the Panel didn’t ask for additional information etc you must be well short.
Roy Bowdler
817 Posts
Olutayo,

Your or others may be concerned, that if you are not accepted for CEng and would like to be considered for IEng instead, you will have to pay the assessment fee twice?

My understanding is; that the IET may waive any reapplication fee if they have given advice, that you should consider IEng? If that offer hasn’t been made then you need to make further enquires with your registration coordinator.  

My understanding is also that Engineering Council rules require that you must make an application for a specific category. As the qualifications and competency attributes of each category overlap, this makes it difficult even for experienced engineers and trained IET advisors.

I’m not currently acting as a Professional Registration Advisor, but I have advised many engineers in the recent past. In some cases, which category to apply for is fairly obvious, but there are many people who may be at or around the boundary. For them the risk of an unsuccessful application may be higher for CEng than it is for IEng.

Therefore, if you are not confident of success for CEng, you can either apply for IEng, or delay until you feel more confident. Some people don’t want IEng, or in the words of one person I advised “why go for silver when I can go for gold”? Inevitably I have seen people who were over-ambitious and those who were too cautious or modest.  

Because you have to reach a minimum standard of underpinning knowledge for each category and a minimum threshold in every competence area, you may fall short before interview for CEng, if it isn’t clear that you are demonstrating “masters level” understanding, although you don’t have to have a masters degree. It is also possible to “trip up” because of weaknesses in one or more competence areas, despite being quite strong in others.      
 
Olutayo
10 Posts
My fair is hinged on the advice from my PRA that I may not be considered for CEng because my BSc degree from Nigeria is not accredited.

In the program, I gained a Bachelor's degree in Electrical and Electronics Engineering with First Class (Hons) in 2017.

I have equally gained an MSc (Distinction) in Electrical Power at Newcastle University, UK in 2019. In both programmes (BSc and MSc), I was recognized as the top student with prizes by the respective universities.

Before the two programmes, I have been working as an Engineer since 2007 ( shortly after I gained my Higher National Diploma, HND). And currently working as a researcher.

I'm now at dilemma as I don't want my application to fail and at the same time, I don't want to be held down. Similarly, I don't want to go through the individual route - this may sometimes be probabilistic. 
Kindly advise.
Roy Bowdler
817 Posts
Olutayo,
I’m surprised at your PRA's advice. I don’t know if there is a misunderstanding?

In my opinion your MSc is excellent evidence of CEng Underpinning Knowledge and Understanding. It is technically correct that you cannot be administratively processed under Engineering Council rules as “standard route”, if your academic qualifications are not fully accredited or covered by international treaty (such as Washington Accord). However, under the IET process you should not be disadvantaged.  

I have advised researchers in the past and they are often strong technically, but without a lead role in either research or teaching, some of the competence areas involving leadership and commercial ability can be difficult to demonstrate. Since these competences are substantially similar for both CEng & IEng and taking into account your career, I wouldn’t recommend IEng to you now. However, you may well have passed through the IEng threshold earlier in your career if you wanted to recognise that?

The current extent of your personal responsibility, autonomy and leadership are probably the main potential “tripping points”, with respect to CEng. You need to discuss this in more detail with a PRA.     
 
Alex Barrett
728 Posts
PRAs seemed to be in short supply when I applied, certainly beyond easy travelling distance, in the days when we used to physically meet. I had issues with the way the application and interviews were handled, but those are now ancient history. I'm fortunate that the letters after my name have never been essential for my work. 
Hi Olutayo,

I will add to what Roy has advised with a bit of background. Up to about five years ago (probably at the issue of UK Spec Rev 3) it was common for CEng rejections to offer IEng as the interview/application had clearly demonstrated compliance with IEng but not CEng (and it was never offered as a 'consolation prize', though some may have taken this view). With the change in the Engineering Council Rules that a Registration Category had to be specifically applied for, the IET had to cease this option.

With regard to the individual route, one of the reasons it is called the individual route is that each candidate is different. A candidate who has completed a Masters degree that is not accredited will be given more credit for this than one who has not completed a Masters degree at all, so your non-accredited degree is better than no degree. Further, I assume your MSc in Electrical Power from Newcastle University is an accredited degree and probably fills in any gaps from your first degree not being accredited (though this will not be assumed and some questions at the interview would be likely to just confirm this).

My advice (if I was acting as your PRA) would probably be to fill in the self assessment to see how close you might be to achieving all the UK Spec competences and then make plans to develop any gaps there may be (or, if it comes out well, start to fill in an application form).
Tim Coker
36 Posts
Alex Barrett:
I was offered a "consolation prize" of IEng after applying for CEng, for what it's worth.

Not sure when this was, but current policy is that IEng is not to be offered if a candidate is declined for CEng. I'm certain that a candidate will never be registered as IEng if they have applied for CEng, apart from anything else it is simply not something that PRI panels can recommend - candidates are scored on the 17 competencies against the requirements of the category they have applied for, there is no "not CEng but IEng" type of scoring.

Broadly speaking these are the outcomes you might expect at each stage, as a CEng candidate

  • Pre-assessment (including all stages eg UKU Statement, Tech Report, FES etc - decline (with reasons), decline (with reasons) and advise re-apply IEng, recommend PRI.
  • PRI - decline with reasons, accept.

Pre-assessment is when UKU is established, so if you get to PRI it is understood that you have reached UKU for your category. On that basis it's possible to be declined at the pre-assessment stage for UKU reasons without competencies even being considered.

It's not at all uncommon for the pre-assessment to conclude that a candidate is on the cusp of IEng/CEng. Personally I'd rather see a candidate succeed applying for IEng than fail applying for CEng, but there is a balance to be struck there.

Tim




 

Tim Coker
36 Posts
I have equally gained an MSc (Distinction) in Electrical Power at Newcastle University, UK in 2019. In both programmes (BSc and MSc), I was recognized as the top student with prizes by the respective universities.

As an assessor, I'd find it difficutl to see how a Masters from NU would not be enough to establish CEng level UKU.
As an interviewer, on the basis that you're doing research not working in industry, I'd want to see good evidence in the C category, which is where academics often struggle.

As to routes, I dont think you have much choice, if the Masters is accredited I think you go standard route, if not it's individual route, but I don't believe you have any choice in the manner, this will be decided by the Staff.

As always, get a PRA :-)

Tim

Olutayo
10 Posts
Many thanks 
mbirdi
1022 Posts
Olutayo:
I have equally gained an MSc (Distinction) in Electrical Power at Newcastle University, UK in 2019.


FYI, the URL to the current list of IET accredited degree courses - which can be downloaded - is shown below:

https://www.theiet.org/career/accreditation/academic-accreditation/

I have also taken the trouble of extracting the relevant details for you - from the list - as shown below:

Newcastle University
MSc Electrical Power
UCAS Code: EP
FT: 1 year
Partial CEng (FL)
EC Ref: 9206
Period: 2005 - 2022

Hope that helps.

Olutayo
10 Posts
Thank you Mbirdi, so kind of you!
 

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