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Alan Turing or Nikola Tesla

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Alan Turing or Nikola Tesla

Posted by Alex Barrett on Jul 15, 2019 2:40 pm

Just a thought, how might Alan Turing or Nikola Tesla fared in a Professional Review Interview?

Re: Alan Turing or Nikola Tesla

Posted by mbirdi on Oct 14, 2019 3:35 pm

Alex Barrett:
[Snip]

The registration  review requires the candidate to make a sales pitch highlighting their own talents, and back that up with a live presentation and discussion with a panel of assessors.
[Snip]
I feel the process favours those gifted in marketing and social skills.

 

Human personality play a large part in career success or failure. Those who feel: confident and self assured; have drive and ambition; believe the glass is always half full, will always win against those with opposite personalities.

So you could get someone with a good degree from a top university, and highly conciensious, may not necessarily rise up the career ladder, and to successful registration, simply because, they lacked confidence. A strong but positive personality; coupled with team building engagement; and a few pints down the pub (or 2 or more) with management and the lads, would be enough to secure job promotion, and ultimately to successful registration.

​​​​​This can be the reason, why young females do not choose STEM subjects, to progress towards an engineering career, because it's seen as an aggressive personality role.

Re: Alan Turing or Nikola Tesla

Posted by Alex Barrett on Oct 15, 2019 11:49 am

As a corollary to this, I've a colleague who is a world class consultant in his field, with a track record in business, who in my mind is a natural Fellow. I know he would appreciate Fellowship, but is not the sort to push himself forward for recognition. I accept that an engineer needs to have relatively good communication skills, and some measure of commercial drive, but I do feel that our system favours the careerist over the talented engineer. Looking at some Fellows I associate with does nothing to dispel this impression. Neither does most of the literature coming out of the IET.

Re: Alan Turing or Nikola Tesla

Posted by Andy Millar on Oct 15, 2019 4:19 pm

I'd actually suggest that the real world of engineering (i.e. outside the PEIs 😊 ) is no worse than any other profession in this regard, and possibly slightly better than some. It does very much depend on the role, consultancy (which I now work in) I would say has more "pushy" types in it than, say development and manufacturing engineering where I came from. The music industry which I used to work in I'd suggest is far more ego driven than the rail industry I now work in. But again this is true across all professions. 

We should be very careful about gender stereotyping here: anyone who has involvement with (for example) the marketing profession will know that women can be just as aggressive as men in the workplace!

But yes I'd totally agree about the confidence thing (again which applies across all professions), and this is something we can address as a profession if we decide to do it. Personally I think my bugbear of the appalling lack of training and development given to engineering managers and team leaders is a big issue here.

Oh, the Fellowship thing...I think the IET is very clear that it wants to see business leaders as Fellows (quite reasonably), and the process is pretty straightforward for that. Where the process is confusing is for recognising those who have a long respected technical career, it does (from the way it's presented) appear to need a recent "big event" to hang the application on.

The big issue I noticed is that there is more support for potential applicants than there appears to be. This is really important, given that I think fair to say that most potential applicants aren't going to apply unless they are pretty sure they are going to get it - the sort of person who is eligible has plenty of other things to occupy them! I have found that the IET could be much clearer that Fellowship Advisers are there and available to support "over a coffee" chats before pen is put to paper, which would be a huge help to the type of person I think you're describing. I'm as passionate about putting potential Fellows in touch with advisers as I am about putting potential registrants in touch with PRAs. In practice this is what I find the most successful at getting the less confident - but highly able - over the hurdle.

Getting my CMgr was interesting...I had a phone call with a CMI adviser who talked through my recent career (against specific criteria), and they then basically put together my application. (The CMI then interviews supporters over the phone to check this.) They recognise that people at that sort of senior level have other things to think about. If Fellowship had a route that worked like that I'd bet there'd be far more applicants - and excellent ones at that.

In summary: I'd like to see far more Fellows appearing who are doing such interesting things that they haven't really got the time or energy to expend on persuading the IET to accept them as Fellows!

Incidentally, when I do run across potential fellows I always encourage them to apply asap - because the process is based on recent activities / achievements it's worth getting the application in as soon as they have something nice and clear to show in the past five years.

(P.S. I am not, of course, a Fellow. I have never actually applied. But I've got very near applying several times now so I'm getting to know the start of the process quite well!)

Cheers,

Andy
Andy Millar CEng CMgr IET Mentor / IET PRA uk.linkedin.com/in/millarandy

Re: Alan Turing or Nikola Tesla

Posted by Alex Barrett on Oct 16, 2019 12:01 pm

In my experience, PRA's are in short supply in our region, I was looking to the opposite end of East Anglia and beyond when I went through this process. Young RAF engineers at Marham voiced the same issue.

I agree entirely with your observations re. the Fellowship process. My candidate has in the past been the founding technical director of a tech business, but is now operating in semi-retirement as a solo consultant, albeit to global authorities such as CERN. He has observed that all the Fellows he knew have passed on, so as you say, some proactive outreach from the IET Fellowship team could be helpful. I have LN committee colleagues who are Fellowship assessors so I might voice this suggestion there, although in my experience the IET is not driven or moved by suggestions from the engine room.

Re: Alan Turing or Nikola Tesla

Posted by mbirdi on Oct 16, 2019 11:28 pm

Andy Millar:
We should be very careful about gender stereotyping here: anyone who has involvement with (for example) the marketing profession will know that women can be just as aggressive as men in the workplace!

Andy, I was referring to pre GCSE and A level age brackets, rather than as matured adults.

Cheers,

Mehmood

Re: Alan Turing or Nikola Tesla

Posted by Andy Millar on Oct 17, 2019 11:00 am

Sorry, of course you're right, I'd agree that's the perception at that age - and actually probably for many working engineers too. I'd say it's a mistaken one, the grass isn't actually greener in other professions, but we have an uphill struggle to change that!
Andy Millar CEng CMgr IET Mentor / IET PRA uk.linkedin.com/in/millarandy

Re: Alan Turing or Nikola Tesla

Posted by Andy Millar on Oct 18, 2019 3:22 pm

Alex Barrett:
In my experience, PRA's are in short supply in our region, I was looking to the opposite end of East Anglia and beyond when I went through this process. Young RAF engineers at Marham voiced the same issue.

Too true - I'm always trying to encourage more members to volunteer as PRAs - particularly those that are in active employment near the coalface. From my experience I'd say it's one of the easiest and most rewarding volunteering roles for engineers in full time employment (i.e. with very little spare time!).

Cheers,

Andy
Andy Millar CEng CMgr IET Mentor / IET PRA uk.linkedin.com/in/millarandy

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