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C&G Professional Recognition Awards

Former Community Member over 5 years ago

Afternoon all,

I've come across, and not found much infomation on the net regarding C&Gs PRAs like LCGI, AfCGI, GCGI and MCGI.

Maybe someone could clear this up for me, but my interpritation of what these are or are supposed to be, is something for people with experience in engineering but without the formal achademic qualifications - awarding a particular award based upon experience which some how corresponds to the type of qualification someone in their job would typically have? So for example, having a GCGI is like having a bachelors degree?

Are such qualifications actually worth having? Are they recognised by industry, or is it more a "buy a title" type situation?

If someone could explain what exactly these really are (and not just marketed as), and what their really worth etc. Sadly C&Gs give very limited info on their site (as per usual).

Lee.

0 Former Community Member over 5 years ago

Learning takes place in different environments. One such source of learning is at work.
In the past one would learn a profession from a master of the Guild.
In the UK there skills and vocational qualifications on different levels.
And yes Academic qualifications as well as other professional qualifications.
City and Guilds PRI's are Accredited Awards that accredit persons achivemnt via Work.
They recognize education + training + experience.
The Royal Charter of C&G and the OfQual accreditation makes them
Recognized awards.
GCGI is equated to a Bachelors degree.
Recognition among employers and industry is not uniformed.
I hold 2 LCGI, GCGI and MCGI in Engineering.
In the USA my awards are recognized for employment as Foreign Degrres. In case of MCGI its evaluated as. MEng.
If one is looking to accredit their experince it is a viable rout.
If University degree is a goal than its better to attend an university.
In our time many education DL or PT , FT options exist.
So this is case by case situation.
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0 Former Community Member over 5 years ago

Thanks for your input gents,

At present i have a HND, but i have around ten years experience in running a calibration lab and now working in electrical design - i obviously know more now than i did when i first obtained my HND. Does this mean in theory i could apply for GCGI (NVQ level 6) as its only one step above my current HND (NVQ level 5)?

And if this is the case, how and where do you apply for it? Is it like applying for IEng where you send in a personal assesment document and then do an interview? What exactly is the process?

I understand some people have had issues trying to get their GCGI accepted by employers as an equivalent to a BEng and having their IEng recognised by employers - but here in Gibraltar these types of things are generally valued, i've had employers in interviews complain i hadn't obtained them despeite in theory having the relevent experience to have done os in the past.

Any help and info is greatly appreciated!

Lee
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0 Former Community Member over 5 years ago

Lee, I think with HND you can enroll ina final year of BEng degree programme. Posibly by DL if you cant attend a B&M campus.

In the past the oportunities to earn a degree were harder than now. This when C&G provided direct application to the awards. That rout was discontinued some 5 + years ego.

Today you will need to contact C&G in order to locate a provider that will do the GCGI assessment. The provider will guide you and provide the required procedures, forms and cost.

I don't know anyone who earned the PRA's

Persons I know earned the earlier version when they were called Senior Awards.

Try the C&G web site portal to locate a provider.

Make some calls to C&G, In the paat I red in blogs that its hard to get a meaningful reply. Maybe our days its better. Good luck.
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0 Former Community Member over 5 years ago

Thanks for your input gents,

At present, doing a BEng long distance just isn't an option at present, with work and young kids I really don't have the time and probably won't for a couple of years now.

I am currently accumulating the required paperwork etc for IEng, which I believe (or so I hope!) stand a chance of obtaining due to my work experience plus the HND, as an alternative route to going directly with a BEng.

I was just wondering if getting a GCGI was a realistic possibility, as is obtaining IEng with just a HND. I've tried looking for places that offer it, but their appears to only be about three or four places that do it and none are for electrical engineering - so I have no idea, as I do not live in the UK, how id be able to obtain it even if I did have the relevant qualifications plus experience to get one. If anyone knows some where that offers GCGI in engineering, id greatly appreciate it. I've googled to no end, and found essentially nothing!

Thanks,

Lee.
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0 Former Community Member over 5 years ago

Hi Yung,

Im living and working in Gibraltar.
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0 Former Community Member over 5 years ago

Thanks for that information Yung,

I guess I'll have to look into the GCGI for Engineering or Engineering management I suppose. I'll to find out which is most applicable for my job (electrical design).

Long distance BEng in anything is just a no-go for me for a good couple of years at least, with work and kids I simply do not have the time.

Thanks for your info Yung, greatly appreciated.

Lee.
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0 Former Community Member over 5 years ago

Moshe and I had a discussion about this a few years ago. I am an IEng with a City and Guilds. Communicating with CGLI is almost impossible. When an LCGI was available with an IEng I was not aware of it. The IIE/IET did not advertise it very well. As I said in the past, the IET should arrange with CGLI to award the LCGI to registered IEng's and then advertise the offer very well.
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0 Former Community Member over 5 years ago

Anthony, GCGI in Engineering was available for the IEng, LCGI was available for EngTech.

I thought it was a needed accreditation/recognition even if it's not traditional.

Things change with the time, the education world changed a lot, many traditional universities offering online degrees making education more accessible to working adults.

Smaller colleges that used to make living from being nontraditional went out of business because they can't compete with a name recognized leading universities.

Many initiatives such as edX and Cursera offering university degrees, professional certificates, and certificates in many fields on line.

I personally think that there shouldn't be non-degreed IEng. Once the standard for IEng registration is achieved and qualifying experience and training of agreed upon a number of years than IEng should be considered also as earned BEng academically.

Some countries like Germany assign levels to the certifications so State -certified Technician/Engineer is at level 6 on DQF and EQF a Bachelors degree level.

The EC UK can amend the Royal Charter to indicate Professional BEng and put it on the IEng registration certificate. That would only show academic level as IEng is much more per UK SPEC.

For professionals who are applying for a work visa in the USA - Experience and training are counted using the three-for-one rule
The law recognizes that a person who does not have the required normal academic qualification of a bachelor's degree can reach that level through relevant experience and training in the field. If the person lacks a bachelor's degree, relevant work experience and/or specialized training is counted toward the equivalent of college education using the three-for-one rule. When making a determination whether a foreign national possesses the required academic credentials necessary for an H1B occupation, the USCIS will consider three years of specialized training and/or work experience to be the equivalent of one year of college education.
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0 Roy Bowdler over 5 years ago

Moshe Waserman:

For professionals who are applying for a work visa in the USA - Experience and training are counted using the three-for-one rule

The law recognizes that a person who does not have the required normal academic qualification of a bachelor's degree can reach that level through relevant experience and training in the field. If the person lacks a bachelor's degree, relevant work experience and/or specialized training is counted toward the equivalent of college education using the three-for-one rule. When making a determination whether a foreign national possesses the required academic credentials necessary for an H1B occupation, the USCIS will consider three years of specialized training and/or work experience to be the equivalent of one year of college education.

Hi Moshe,

I couldn't track this down on the USCIS website, could you offer a link or reference please. Clearly this is an oversimplified "rule of thumb" which we could argue about, but it does seem rather "sensible" for a paragraph with the word law in it.

I was 20+ years ago involved with City & Guilds Senior Awards for a time and inquired years later about the streamlined route to MCGI . I thought it might be a way that I could "put something back" (I didn't need the "title"), but only CEng were eligible, whereas IEng + Masters (x2) + Chartered wasn't, so I didn't pursue it. Most Senior Awards were franchised out to organisations like the Armed Forces to demonstrate the achievement of equivalent academic level, carried out in a more vocational context.

Their primary focus is by their own tag line " Vocational Education and Apprenticeships" , which is a vital mission. I would speculate that they have found the market for "degree equivalents" much less amenable in recent years as provision in the university sector expanded. Some UK universities have specialised in work-based learning type programmes and degrees are just more widely understood.
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0 Former Community Member over 5 years ago

Roy,

Here you can find additional information.

Scroll down to (2) Equivalency of Experience and Education.

I think this is more of a regulation than a law.

https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/AFM/HTML/AFM/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-13593/0-0-0-13813.html

" (2) Equivalency of Experience and Education.

One of the most common situations an adjudicator will encounter is an H-1B petition filed for an alien in specialty occupation where the alien lacks a U.S. bachelor’s degree. Adjudicators should be thoroughly familiar with 8 CFR 214.2(h)(4)(iii)(D) which describes the kind and amount of experience which can be used to establish the equivalence of a degree. Three years of professional experience may be used to substitute for each year of college-level training. The most critical aspect of this type of adjudication is deciding whether the quality of experience is at high enough level to qualify as “professional.” Experience is generally documented through letters from past employers and may be so lacking in specificity as to make the qualitative determination difficult or impossible. The regulations for deciding equivalency are very specific and must be closely followed. "

Also as I mentioned Germany.

Their State-certified Engineer on the certificate indicates that this is level 6 on DQF and EQF as Bachelor degree.
Staatlich geprüften Techniker/innen

Also, it comes with Europass Supplement that allows mobility and a better understanding of the qualification by potential employers.
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