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Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

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Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by CliveS on Jan 16, 2020 12:36 am


It was thought until recently that electricity was created by the movement of electrons around a circuit. This worked fine for batteries but AC required a way to transfer energy across an isolation transformer where the primary electrons never touch the secondary winding electrons.  We also know that electricity moves at nearly the speed of light, and as electrons are particles they would need a massive amount of energy to achieve this.
So we need to rethink how we can transmit electric light energy using magnons rather than electrons. As domestic electricity is alternating current [AC] it is really just a low frequency electromagnetic energy but subject to the same laws and restrictions as radio waves and sunlight rays.   
  To try and reconcile these requirements it is much easier to consider that magnons are at the inside heart of all types of electromagnetic vibrational energy which when introduced into matter molecules vibrates the inner nuclear magnetic moment and thus increase its temperature/pressure characteristics. To this end I wrote a blog on magnoflux     http://electricmagnofluxuniverse.blogspot.com/


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Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by Alasdair Anderson on Jan 16, 2020 1:41 pm

CliveS:
 We also know that electricity moves at nearly the speed of light, and as electrons are particles they would need a massive amount of energy to achieve this.

Yes (to the first part) and no (to the second part). If you have a tube full of tennis balls and push a ball in one end a ball will fall out the other end. The ball you have pushed in has not moved the length of the tube. Similarly with electrons, the electrons do not move close to the speed of light but the energy does.
I had a look at the link and was very disappointed in the scientific errors it contained (e.g. reference to negatively charged neutrons) which undermine any arguments put forward.
Alasdair

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by CliveS on Jan 16, 2020 8:47 pm

Hi Alasdair
Yes, I know that it is very difficult to think of electricity of being anything apart from what we have been taught and accepted as being true.  After all, until 1600 AD we all were taught and believed that the earth was flat; it was a no brainer; obvious.  But do you think it is flat now???  It would be wonderful if some university could investigate Magnons and issue a report.
Take a look at this youtube presentation that shows the magnoflux spin effect which is not explainable using classical physics either.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_QqJraDxaA&t=22s 

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by CliveS on Jan 16, 2020 10:21 pm

This website https://magnoflux3d.wordpress.com/  is easier to follow.  63ba5dda31d2d66128d910967f243c9c-huge-3d
 

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by mapj1 on Jan 16, 2020 10:29 pm


A new model is only useful if it explains things the previous model did not, and at the same time only predicts things that actually do happen, and only precludes things that do not.
Anything else is an inferior model to the current one.

I am not clear of any such advantage associated with this model.
 

It was thought until recently that electricity was created by the movement of electrons around a circuit.

No. It is the action at a distance of one charged particle upon another, this we can model either as a field, or as you have tried to,  as  a particle exchange (photons, phonons gluons etc ).

 

This worked fine for batteries but AC required a way to transfer energy across an isolation transformer where the primary electrons never touch the secondary winding electrons. 

If by 'touch' you mean 'create fields that exert forces on other charged particles', that is exactly what we do mean.  When my backside touches the chair, it is the repulsion between the outer parts of the atoms in one influencing the other that hold me up . Both I and the chair are mostly comprised of vaccuum hence the Geiger Marsden results. Only in a neutron star or a black hole does anything with a physical extent 'touch' as you seem to mean it.
 

We also know that electricity moves at nearly the speed of light,

The action at  distance field moves at the speed of light - light is an example of just such a field, just reversing polarity at a few hundred tera Herz. The particles or individual electrons move at a speed determined by any voltage they have been accelerated through since last collision.



 


and as electrons are particles they would need a massive amount of energy to achieve this.

Sure , to get an electron to  a reasonable fraction of the speed of light requires a few hundred kilovolts of un-obstructed acceleration, as the mass is 500 odd keV. So what point are you making ?

Are you aware of how traveling wave tubes work ?  They are a delightful example of how the transit time  of a particle relates to its kinetic energy, but the fields that particle generates (the action at a distance other charged particle experience because of it) move at c.
Try and design a traveling wave device or a simple particle accelerator using your magnon theory, and see if it is easier or harder to do.

So we need to rethink how we can transmit electric light energy using magnons rather than electrons.

non-sequetuer

As domestic electricity is alternating current [AC] it is really just a low frequency electromagnetic energy but subject to the same laws and restrictions as radio waves and sunlight rays.   

Agree, and that is exactly how it behaves, no new model is needed.

To try and reconcile these requirements it is much easier to consider that magnons are at the inside heart of all types of electromagnetic vibrational energy which when introduced into matter molecules vibrates the inner nuclear magnetic moment and thus increase its temperature/pressure characteristics. To this end I wrote a blog on magnoflux 

There is nothing to reconcile, there has been no paradox at the heart of EM theory to be solved.
See above. Magnons add complexity but no further value to the model.
 

   http://electricmagnofluxuniverse.blogspot.com/

Would benefit from a re-write.


I am not intending to be personally confrontational, but I do intend to be very clear, if you wish to challenge existing scientific principles that are well established and both support, and are supported by, a lot of very successful engineering, you must be prepared to engage and justify your position scientifically, and you must be rigorous about it, i.e. able to do all the stuff we can do with the current model and more, and ideally to have an experimental result or two that actually show some effects your new model predicts that the old one does not.
I'm not seeing that.

 
regards Mike

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by Howard Leamon on Jan 21, 2020 8:08 am

CliveS:
 After all, until 1600 AD we all were taught and believed that the earth was flat; it was a no brainer; obvious.  But do you think it is flat now??? 

I cannot believe that statement is accurate. The knowledge that the Earth is (near) spherical had existed long before Magellan's circumnavigation and significant academic texts discuss and describe the Earth's spherical shape from the Middle Ages (the first evidence of knowledge of the spherical shape of the Earth in Scandinavia is a 12th-century Old Icelandic translation of Elucidarius. A non-exhaustive list of more than a hundred Latin and vernacular writers from Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages who were aware that the earth was spherical has been compiled by Reinhard Krüger, professor for Romance literature at the University of Stuttgart).

The myth of the flat Earth is a modern misconception that Earth was believed to be flat rather than spherical by scholars and the educated during the Middle Ages in Europe (Main, Douglas (28 January 2016). "Even in the Middle Ages, People Didn't Think the Earth was Flat". ).

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by Alasdair Anderson on Jan 21, 2020 8:57 am

Howard Leamon:
the first evidence of knowledge of the spherical shape of the Earth in Scandinavia is a 12th-century Old Icelandic translation of Elucidarius

To quote your words, Howard, I cannot believe that statement is accurate. The ancient Greeks knew that the earth was not flat since at an eclipse of the moon, whichever direction the shadow of the earth was cast on the moon is was seen as round - hence they deduced that the earth was spherical. Unfortunately I only have my memory to rely on for the evidence of this as I can't quote sources, but there is the famous experiment of Eratosthenes in 205 BC when he measured the circumference of the Earth by measuring the altitude of the sun at Alexandria and the altitude of the sun at Syene (overhead) to conclude that the circumference was 24,000 stadia.
Alasdair

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by mapj1 on Jan 21, 2020 10:24 am

There is a tendency to believe that through history the accumulation of human knowledge has been linear, while in reality it has been lumpy and with many reversals as various groups have risen to dominance and then fallen. It is important also to realise that modern interconnectedness is just that, modern, and is the exception rather than the rule.

So, at the time your average stone age man in the UK was looking at building Stonehenge, he would have been unaware of the existence of the Greeks who were his contemporaries, let alone folk in other places who had come and gone centuries before like  the builders of the pyramids in Egypt who had already had a bronze age of sorts.
It may very well be that someone in the middle ages thought the earth was flat (someone may think it even now!!), but equally in other places some folk knew otherwise a long time before.
regards Mike

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by CliveS on Jan 21, 2020 11:41 pm

mapj1,   So you agree that domestic electricity is just low frequency light.  So, electricity is being conducted through the core on an isolation transformer by photons.   But photons have no electric charge or mass so we need to have a magnon of magnetic energy as the force carrier surely.
It is about time our major universities investigate magnons and come up with an agreed definition of what it is and its volumetric  shape. 

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by CliveS on Jan 23, 2020 8:29 am

By the way Wikipedia says " The concept of a magnon was introduced in 1930 by Felix Bloch[1] in order to explain the reduction of the spontaneous magnetization in a ferromagnet."  So it is known for 90 years so why is it not clearly defined by physicists as a force carrier with its associated spinning amp-flux magnoflux characteristics??

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by mapj1 on Jan 23, 2020 11:08 am

You can if you wish model the fields in a transformer as photons in a magnetic medium but their wave impedance will be much lower than that of free space due to the mu of the transformer. The coherence length of a 50Hz photon is massive, thousands of km, and the energy of each one is impractically low, so rather like modelling gas pressure by trying to count individual atomic collisions, the particulate view is adding a lot of complication for almost no additional insight, as you will be dealing with very small phase changes across the device, and the classical psuedo-static field approach will be much easier.
I suggest if you are feeling confident, you plug in some real values and calculate particle densities and their probability density funtions for a bell transformer with say a 1 inch cube of soft iron core, taking mains in and driving a 6V 1 amp load and see how much the quantum mech view does not allow you to calculate anything you could not have predicted with several sides less paper and lower risk of algebraic error using the classical approximations. I guarantee the differences you calculate in the output currents will be several tens of orders of magnitude below the threshold of detection.  You will need to set aside a good few hours.
However, if you repeat the exercise for a thin layer of semiconductor a few micorns accross amplifying a signal at 10GHz, then the effecets start to have a modest effect - hence HEMTs and so on work the way they do and can be modelled for (with a lot of effort, and we normally bother just for the active region) as a 2 dimensional  quantum gas (or a very nearly 2D, ) . If the QM theory was wrong, the satellite TV receivers would not work as predicted.
regards Mike

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by CliveS on Jan 27, 2020 7:51 am

Thanks Mike,
You have some excellent suggestions for followup experimentation which hopefully will help to explain some of the mystery behind magnons.  Did you know that the Hall effect is in evidence in several FET [field effect transistors] devices which also has not been explained .  These are all areas that PHD students could really explore for us and produce a thesis on the results.

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by Howard Leamon on Jan 28, 2020 7:38 am

Alasdair Anderson:

 

Howard Leamon:
the first evidence of knowledge of the spherical shape of the Earth in Scandinavia is a 12th-century Old Icelandic translation of Elucidarius

To quote your words, Howard, I cannot believe that statement is accurate. The ancient Greeks knew that the earth was not flat since at an eclipse of the moon, whichever direction the shadow of the earth was cast on the moon is was seen as round - hence they deduced that the earth was spherical. Unfortunately I only have my memory to rely on for the evidence of this as I can't quote sources, but there is the famous experiment of Eratosthenes in 205 BC when he measured the circumference of the Earth by measuring the altitude of the sun at Alexandria and the altitude of the sun at Syene (overhead) to conclude that the circumference was 24,000 stadia.
Alasdair

 

Alasdair,

I fear you have misread the quote. I did not state the first evidence of a spherical Earth was from the 12th century but that the first evidence of a spherical Earth IN SCANDINAVIA was from a 12th century text. I was highlighting that non-Greeks were fully aware of the shape of the Earth long before the 1600's, too.

Howard

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by CliveS on Feb 5, 2020 4:40 am

Getting back to the main topic we need a better explanation of a conductors magnetic momentum.  It is difficult to explain how magnons move through an electric conductor because the B/H curve MUr µ characteristics of copper, aluminium and silver are not databased anywhere; all that  is known is the µo,the permeability of free space.
However, I have an old table of isotopes Oliver and Boyd 2000 which shows the nuclear magnetic moment µ for copper as +0.22 , Aluminium as +3.64 and silver as -0.11 which I assume must be relevant to any explanation. 
However, the magnetic moment will probably be affected by a change in frequency of the magnoflux transmission which will need to be investigated and databased.   
Attached files

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by Benyamin Davodian on Feb 5, 2020 9:57 am

Good morning Anthony,
The gravitational force on a body with a constant mass m is equal to mg, where g is the acceleration of gravity (equal to 9.8 meters per second squared). The direction of the force towards the center of the earth, that is, down. Its speed will be slowed, provided that another force acting on it will be an upward component. Let us now consider what happens to the conductor under the influence of magnetic field B (for simplicity, suppose the field is uniform in size and direction).

Unlike the electric force acting on a charged body in any situation, the magnetic field does not exert force on stationary charges but only on moving charges. The magnetic field is defined by the force it exerts on a particle with a velocity v and a charge q, called the Lorentz
  force: 


 
 
 
The cross mark in the equation indicates a vector multiplication, which means that the direction of the force is perpendicular to both the velocity of the body and the magnetic field (see picture).
Lorentz.png
Finding the direction of Lorentz force using the right hand rule. Image courtesy of Wikipedia.
The magnitude of the force (the absolute value of the force in the above equation) is given by:
 
 
Where θ is the angle between the charged body velocity and the magnetic field. From this it can be seen that no magnetic force acts on a charged body moving parallel to the magnetic field since in this case θ = 0. The force is maximal when θ = 90 ° (then sinθ = 1), that is when the particle moves vertically to the magnetic field.

Let's go back to the original question. If the conductor falls in a straight line (for example, if released from rest), then the magnetic force, which is perpendicular to velocity according to Lorenz's law, will also be perpendicular to gravity. This means there will be no component of the magnetic force which will reduce gravity. Conversely, if the applicator is thrown horizontally, its trajectory will be parabolic (rather than linear), as in the following illustration:
projectile.png
The orbit of a particle thrown at an angle to the ground. The blue arrows indicate the velocity vector at different points along the trajectory.
When at each point and direction the speed tangent to the orbit. In this case it is possible to choose the direction of the magnetic field so that the magnetic force will be a component in the positive direction of Y in the drawing, and the motion of the conductor will slow down.

Dear Anthony, I hope the answer meets your request
 
Regards, DAVODIAN BENYAMIN

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by Benyamin Davodian on Feb 5, 2020 10:29 am

אני מצרף אליך מסמך משוואה בפוסט הקודם שלא כתבתי.
בהצלחה ....
Attached files
Regards, DAVODIAN BENYAMIN

Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by CliveS on Feb 7, 2020 9:52 pm

The hand with a twist is how electricity looks but what is wrong is the units shown in the x,y and z directions are totally misleading. The current i in the x direction is fine but at rightangles to this is the flux and NOT the flux density B.  The flux density is an area of magnetic flux in the x and y directions.  Thus to increase the flux/amp area we can increase the ampere-turns and create more magnoflux.  But this is massless and chargeless magnetic stuff and still has no volume in which to contain the spin energy.  This is provided by the EMF voltage applied in the final z direction.
This is shown in the attached diagram.
The result is that a balanced area of flux-current  will helix forward in the direction of the voltage giving a unit of magnetic power which if maintained for a second is energy


POWER =  x  wbs X  EMFvolts Cos  
Now if we multiple the two equal square roots together we get an area of flux amps  which is what we call current.  To make a volume the voltage must be at right angles to the current or a Cos ∅reductionwillresultinVARsratherthanWattsbeingproduced. 
.
 
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Re: Magnon magnetic vibrations are at the heart of electric light rather than electrons.

Posted by CliveS on Feb 9, 2020 10:38 pm

Have a bit of a problem with the special characters as the symbol for square root is missing so apologise for the messy formula.  So in written text 

Power equals a square area of magnoflux with current movement in x direction and flux in y direction inseparably combined together [ which we measure in amps] with the voltage at right angles in the z direction [measured in volts].  
If the voltage is not exactly at right angles there will be a reduction in power transmitted by Cos Ø . Electric power can move through a vacuum at the speed of light as it magnetic and has no charge or mass.  

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