Hi Shawn,


Difficult to give definitive guidance on this but when I was doing my degree at Strathclyde University (which was accredited) we had a number of students join half way through the four year course who had done an HND and were therefore exempt from the first two years of study. At the end of the process it will be the accreditation of the final degree that is critical, not the accreditation (or not) of the HND. You are also correct in that you can go HND => BEng => MSc/MEng.


With regard to the accreditation please remember that it is possible to gain CEng Registration without an accredited degree, and even with no degree at all. The lack of accredited degree just puts more onus on the candidate to demonstrate their level of learning to be equivalent to a Masters degree, but the assessors and interviewers are practiced at asking the right questions to delve into that.


With regard to Canada I will have to leave it to others to respond in that respect, but if the degree is recognised under an international agreement such as the Washington accord I would have thought there would be no issue. This may be the problem with online degrees as I suspect that the international accords only deal with Full Time residential study, though in the light of the restrictions on that during the pandemic there may be some leeway in the future.


Alasdair

Regarding Canada, I don't believe that whether a degree is Washington accord or not matters too much for PEng, see the requirements for e.g. Ontario here: https://www.peo.on.ca/licence-applications/become-professional-engineer/general-academic-requirements basically they assess each non-Canadian degree separately on each application. But other states in Canada may be different. In the end, I think if you can find a company in Canada that will employ you (which you realistically need first anyway in order to get PEng) then it will get sorted. 


Regarding your first question, in a previous UK company I worked for we used to regularly sponsor staff through two year top up programmes to take their HNDs to BEng. Those who decided to leave the company seemed to find other jobs with no problem at all! In my experience most UK employers simply don't know enough about the different degree programmes for it to matter - there are hundreds (thousands?) of different engineering degree programmes in the UK alone, and the poor engineering manager is quite busy enough doing their day job without spending time worrying about which exact degree a candidate has. HR departments do worry about degree grades (because that's an easy thing to measure to reject CVs if you have too many applicants), so my advice is to find the degree which you're likely to enjoy the most and therefore get the best grade in. 


However, one word of caution, an HND is not the same as the first 1 to 2 years of a degree. An HND is a vocational course ("this is how to do the stuff we already know about"), a degree is an academic course ("this is how to think about solving a problem we haven't even thought of yet"). Topping up an HND is hard work, as mentioned I've seen many do it, in particular typically a lot of additional maths study may be required. It can still be a really good thing to do, just be prepared for that change in direction. 


Cheers,


Andy

Nowadays, an employee working in the engineering and technology sector, can claim - particularly when applying for internal vacant jobs - as working to 'degree level', whether or not they have a degree; provided of course they are working with at least one employee who does have a degree, and are on the same pay scale, which employers are happy to pay in wage costs.


The IET and UKSpec recognises this situation, since it now encourages engineers with degrees or no qualification at all to apply up to CEng level, as experience alone can count as competence to MEng level.


Then you have the educational establishments, such as universities and colleges. The OU accepts anyone, with or without any prior qualifications, onto their degree programs, and universities and colleges offer anyone over the age of 21 a place onto a degree course of their choice, provided they can show an aptitude to study, such as passing an entrance exam, or evidence of relevent job experience or apprenticeship. 


when you put all three circumstances above together, the only conclusion one can draw is that anyone working in the E&T sector, alongside other graduates or postgraduates can describe themselves as 'working to graduate of postgraduate level'. And if one of the employee or line manager is a CEng, then 'working to CEng level' is also up for grabs.


All that is required is for just one person in the company to fork out £1000s and undergo many years of study towards actually gaining a degree and/or spend £100s+ and undergo the Hassel of applying to gain CEng status. Everyone else in the team is automatically on the degree/CEng bandwagon for free. 


As for whether an HND or HNC is a match for some of parts of a degree course, then of course they are. Universities have offered HND and HNC qualified and experienced engineers places onto MSc and PhD programs for decades. The mathematics (and even programming skills) isn't that important nowadays to the majority of engineers. It's only important to the small number of specialists engineers, and they're mostly paid less than everyone else for doing a role (or multiple roles) they enjoy. Employers don't look to kindly to that for some reason - "you're enjoying your job far too much. I'm afraid I cannot recommend you for a pay rise".


Andy I sent you a PM about LinkedIn. I wonder if you received it and are able to help? Cheers.

Sorry no I hadn't (have now ? ). Unfortunately the only way I could find of not having my inbox filled with IET emails was, in the end, to turn off all notifications. So I don't now know if I have messages unless I remember to check here, and I don't come on here very often these days.


I'll drop you a note back shortly!


Cheers, Andy

Andy, thanks!  Cheers.