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Generation & Transmission Losses.
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3856 Posts
Question

Are they really this bad. So let's make it a gas, man.

37 Replies
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3856 Posts
One sustainability expert told MailOnline that the biggest problem that needs to be fixed is 'the shocking losses in the generation and transmission of energy in the UK, where two-thirds of energy is currently wasted'
broadgage
878 Posts

Transmission losses from power station gate to consumer are generally reckoned as being about 10%. No great accuracy may be claimed as there are several slightly differing versions of losses, and the figures are continually changing.

Generation losses are much greater.

Coal is about 35% efficient under ideal conditions, maybe 25% in real world use with part load operation and start up and standby losses.

CCGT reaches 50% under ideal conditions, but averages about 33% in practice.

Solar is about 20% but sunlight is free

Wind about 50% but wind is free.

Chris Pearson
3072 Posts

I wonder whether the proportion of female BG personnel in the clip was representative? 🤔

Now I know what those fittings do - I noticed some in the plumbers' merchant when I was there last week. Perhaps safer than soldering although the machine hardly looked like it was made for confined spaces. Expensive too!

Chris Pearson
3072 Posts

broadgage: 
Solar is about 20% but sunlight is free

Wind about 50% but wind is free.

Yes, but how do the capital costs compare?

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3856 Posts

I didn't know that Boris was moonlighting as a gas engineer. And I bet that he can report a fault diagnosis in Latin as well.

You will never get me to accept crimped gas pipe joints ever.

One observer's view:

“I am worried the seals will fail faster than the pipe or solder joint would. From my experience soldered copper pipes seemed to have endured for a very long time. I am not sure how well the crimped fittings seal will last. From my limited perspective and generally speaking, soldered joints will last the life of the house.”

Z.

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3856 Posts

Chris Pearson: 
 

I wonder whether the proportion of female BG personnel in the clip was representative? 🤔

Now I know what those fittings do - I noticed some in the plumbers' merchant when I was there last week. Perhaps safer than soldering although the machine hardly looked like it was made for confined spaces. Expensive too!

Everything is P.C. these days Chris. It has to be. Did you see the lass with the nice arm tattoos? Lovely! ………………………………..The tool is not exactly compact Chris, and the kuf-up potential is very great.

I won't be using one.

Plumbing does look challenging and fun though.

Z.

 

ebee
1336 Posts

“I didn't know that Boris was moonlighting as a gas engineer.”

Really Zoom, what makes you think that Boris has the intelligence, wit or foresight to be a gas engineer or indeed such as an electrician/electrical engineer etc etc. Is he qualified to even clean windows?

Chris Pearson
3072 Posts

ebee: 
Really Zoom, what makes you think that Boris has the intelligence, wit or foresight to be a gas engineer or indeed such as an electrician/electrical engineer etc etc. Is he qualified to even clean windows?

He certainly doesn't have the hand skills. 😁

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3856 Posts

ebee: 
 

“I didn't know that Boris was moonlighting as a gas engineer.”

Really Zoom, what makes you think that Boris has the intelligence, wit or foresight to be a gas engineer or indeed such as an electrician/electrical engineer etc etc. Is he qualified to even clean windows?

Erm, erm. Erm, I think it was the British Gas logo emblazed jacked that he was wearing that suggested his moonlighting as a gas fitter. That and his hands-on pipework skills.😓

Z.

A lot of nonsense here - but that is no surprise.

  1. gas prices are rocketing, true but because the marginal electricity is entirely gas generated any increase in gas prices will increase electricity prices as well so you are stuffed either way.
  2. gas boilers banned in 2030 no, it is new gas boiler that are banned. (maybe). Installing an efficient condensing one now makes a lot of sense for the next 10 years
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3856 Posts

Harry Macdonald: 
 

A lot of nonsense here - but that is no surprise.

  1. gas prices are rocketing, true but because the marginal electricity is entirely gas generated any increase in gas prices will increase electricity prices as well so you are stuffed either way.
  2. gas boilers banned in 2030 no, it is new gas boiler that are banned. (maybe). Installing an efficient condensing one now makes a lot of sense for the next 10 years

Britain has limited gas storage capacity compared to many other European countries. North Sea gas production has fallen due to maintenance shutdowns and Covid limitations.

There is low wind output at present due to calm weather.

Aging nuclear reactor power stations are not helping as they have to shut down for maintenance.

Many gas and coal plants are out of action due to maintenance needs.

C.F. Industries, a fertiliser maker has shut down due to high gas prices.

Z.

 

 

 

 

Jon Steward
99 Posts

Chris Pearson: 
 

broadgage: 
Solar is about 20% but sunlight is free

Wind about 50% but wind is free.

Yes, but how do the capital costs compare?

This is where it gets interesting.

There is no way these subsidised generation techniques would exists in any large scale due to the capital costs.

Back in 2002 we were well on our way to achieving co2 reduction using gas turbines and developing small scale nuclear, proper engineering, until the greens took control. This new tech is far from green and who's going to maintain and decommission them in the future. I guess we'll all be paying. And all for what exactly?

Sea levels are rising at 1.3 mm per year in a straight line. The planet is a nice place to live even with 1.5 degree increase. 

CO2 levels are fine, no problem, the science says so.

ebee
1336 Posts

Just a pity Nuclear, as yet, has so many problems of great magnitude. Without those problems it could be our salvation.

The only reasonably reliable ting in this world is tidal range (Oh and deaths and taxes)

Jon Steward
99 Posts

ebee: 
 

Just a pity Nuclear, as yet, has so many problems of great magnitude. Without those problems it could be our salvation.

The only reasonably reliable ting in this world is tidal range (Oh and deaths and taxes)

It's a pity the investment in small scale modular reactor  development stopped 20 years ago. We're now 20 years behind!

If the green's hadn't got in the way our engineers would have small scale modular reactors installed in most towns. Surely the greenest energy man can make!

wallywombat
522 Posts

Jon Steward: 

If the green's hadn't got in the way our engineers would have small scale modular reactors installed in most towns. 

Even if the greens had been the most enthusiastic advocates of such technologies, we still wouldn't have had them.

Alan Capon
486 Posts

Harry Macdonald: 
 

A lot of nonsense here - but that is no surprise. . . 

I agree 100%. A lot of the rubbish designed to sell newspapers, few real facts. 

Regards,

Alan. 

Alan Capon
486 Posts

wallywombat: 
 

Jon Steward: 

If the green's hadn't got in the way our engineers would have small scale modular reactors installed in most towns. 

Even if the greens had been the most enthusiastic advocates of such technologies, we still wouldn't have had them.

That is one of the problems. The nuclear industry has never been good at public relations. The scaremongering by the press regarding nuclear is impressive in both its volume, lack of accuracy And technical knowledge. Unfortunately the UK government have taken the same side, instead of promoting and encouraging a safe and reliable method of generating green energy. 

Regards,

Alan. 

Jon Steward
99 Posts

Parliamentlive.tv - Industry and Regulators Committee

Dr John Constable is absolutely correct here.

mapj1
4166 Posts

North Sea gas production has fallen due to maintenance shutdowns and Covid limitations.

Is a bit of a simplification, and really only applies to the last year or so, while our own gas production has been falling for far longer, as the more easily tapped reserves are exhausted.

To prop up our gas habit we are bringing in increasing quantities from abroad, including tankers from places like Qatar, as well as via pipeline from the continent. 

For a while we were using the Rough field (really an underground salt cavern) as our largest store, and filling it in summer to run it down in winter to tide over the period that production did not meet demand. Unfortunately in the last few years it has developed a number of leaks, and had to be shut.  Periodically there is talk of trying to get it back into a useable state, but being 27km off the Yorkshire coast and km down makes fixing it tricky/expensive.  

The practical upshot is that we have never been more dependant on other countries for our gas supplies.

This is not new, and was predicted years ago, as this rather telling, if dated graphic shows.

I'll try and find a newer one.

 

Mike.

 

 

Jon Steward
99 Posts

Our Government backs plans for 60GW of wind turbines by 2030. Currently, wind is  costings tax payers 10 Billion quid a year. Expect massive costs in electricity shortly.

Meanwhile we have gas reserves ready to be fracked out from below our feet. If only we dare too, or the greens are put into the naughty corner.

Jon Steward
99 Posts

Bare in mind that all this green path to economic ruin is based on the assumption that man made  CO2 is the sole cause of our current warming of the planet. Which is purely speculative. 

mapj1
4166 Posts

depending which bunch of wild estimates you prefer, theremay be as much as 50years or as little as 10 of frackable shale gas under the UK.

University of Nottingham reckons the lower estimate, based on playing with British geological survey core samples in the lab, and the DOE and ECIU reckons on the higher figure based on a desk study of flow rate  in similar rocks in the US. 

It has been linked to small tremors from underground earthquakes, but only a few km from the sites.

In either case, it is a stop gap energy solution , my kids will still be alive when it runs out, and most wiring going in today will still be in service, either way ;-)

Mike,

CO2 levels are not fine and are heading in the wrong direction.

Jon Steward
99 Posts

That maybe so. Buy not categorically proven cause of global warming and climate change. And certainly not proven to be wholey man made.

Jon Steward
99 Posts

Harry Macdonald: 
 

CO2 levels are not fine and are heading in the wrong direction.

The planet is loving the CO2. So are humans. That's how we've managed to increase our population from 1 billion to 8.5 billion in the last century.

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