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EICR failed missing trunking?
newtoeicr
1 Posts
Question

Hi,

I’ve just had an EICR done last week, One item I do not understand and would need an electrician or someone to help please. the EICR report says “MISSING TRUNKING WITH WIRES NOT SUPPORTED C2 SHED.” The cable is clipped on the wood wall in the shed. There are no exposed wires. And the shed is not on escape routes. Does cable need to be in trunking in order to comply with the electrical wire regulation? Is the code 2 correct for this situation?  please see photo.

Thank you for help

65 Replies
AJJewsbury
2491 Posts
There's no requirement for trunking or other enclosure of sheathed wiring like that - unless there's a higher than normal risk of mechanical damage (which depends on how the shed is used). It should however be at least clipped securely (which it doesn't look to be). C2 seems a bit steep either way.

These days all wiring should be supported so that it won't collapse in the event of a fire (whether across an escape route or not), so plastic clips aren't ideal - but again on an EICR it would be a minor matter.

   - Andy.
The cable does need some more clips but this is not a C2, it does not need trunking. Another incompetent EICR. Perhaps you could email me a copy and the photo. Thanks

David CEng etc.

davezawadi(at)yahoo.co.uk
Chris Pearson
2495 Posts
That's pretty shabby and needs to be improved. The appropriate code is probably C3, but if there is a socket dangling from the end of the cable C2 might be justified.

It's not exactly difficult to fix: all you need is a box of cable clips and a hammer. Position the clips with the nail below on the horizontal portion and space them 200 - 250 mm apart. Spacing can be a little further apart on the vertical part of the run.

It really just needs to be neat and tidy when completed.
mapj1
3413 Posts
If further along there is exposed inner cores of the cable, by which I mean the red and black or brown and blue , - or if there was a risk of rats chwing the cable, perhaps that would need enclosure.
What you show here is fine but  lacking a few cable clips, ( which  look like this for the plastic ones or this for the fire rated ones  ) and maybe a batten of wood to nail them to if the wall is floppy, but it is not really  dangerous - I;d have expected a comment that  it 'needs improvement' not a C2 failure.

You could have trunking on the wall and it would certainly look nice, but there is no regs requirement to do so for a sheathed cable like that..

Are there other failures in the report ? - it would be interesting to check, as if they can get that wrong, then maybe there are more serious errors.

Mike
PS the links are to show you what things look like, I have  no affiliation to screwfix, except as a customer.
ebee
1147 Posts
It probably needs protecting by trunking (to some extent )or something to avoid mechanical damage from scuffing etc which will be largely dependant upon use and intended use.
But it`s not a C2 as far as shown.
C3 at worst

Send a copy of the EICR to Dave Z
Blencathra
107 Posts
Did he code the non matching shelf brackets- C3 in my book
Farmboy
219 Posts
davezawadi (David Stone):
The cable does need some more clips but this is not a C2, it does not need trunking. Another incompetent EICR. Perhaps you could email me a copy and the photo. Thanks

David CEng etc.

davezawadi(at)yahoo.co.uk


What are you going to do with the evidence you are gathering, and what outcome would you like to see?

John Peckham
688 Posts
All metel cable clips are readily available so 15 minutes with a pair of pliers, a hammer and a box of clips is an easy fix. 
ebee
1147 Posts
Blencathra:
Did he code the non matching shelf brackets- C3 in my book

Well said that man! I like it  😀

 

ebee
1147 Posts
Is a tablelamp with a BC lampholder with no lampshade and no lamp in, on a table 3` from finished floor level.
A C1, C2, C3 or no code.
Same question with a BC lampholder dangling from a ceiling with the empty lampholder at 5` from finished floor level.

I`m talking about bog standard BC lampholders not them fancy expensive things that nobody buys and they auto disconnect the pins on lamp removal
The right hand end to the cable in the photo above looks cut off.  Evidence photos used for EICRs should really be as clear and unambiguous as possible.
Legh
 
Chris Pearson
2495 Posts
Nothing for the table lamp - it is a portable appliance and should be tested accordingly.

Ceiling (or wall) batten fitting is an interesting one. It's too large to be IP2X. Must be a C1!!!
Sparkingchip
4012 Posts
If it is an escape route or not has nothing to do with the requirements for securing cables, it is a general requirement that cables are secured and it covers all areas of the installation.

Electricians do not code being scruffy and tatty, the requirement is that an installation has to be “good enough” it does not need to be excellent.

That installation is not good enough.

It is not possible to see the whole interior of the shed, if it is all that can be seen then it’s a Code 3, if there’s the risk of entanglement with cables running across the ceiling or doorway it’s a Code 2.

It does beg the question why someone did not tidying it up before commissioning the EICR, because it’s a totally obvious issue that needs addressing? A box of metal cable clips from Screwfix and a hammer would have sorted it out.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/schneider-electric-fire-rated-cable-clip-1-2-5mm-100-pack/767gv

 
UKPN
212 Posts
I would firstly give the amateur one week wonder let loose courtesy of a questionable coding system the chance to do the right thing.
This being an explanation of how a cable fixed to a wall with a bit hanging off the broken clip/s is potentially dangerous. 
If that fails ask politely for an amended satisfactory report. If that fails point out you have been mis-sold a service and require details of his insurance company. If that fails tell him he will have an appointment at the small claims court. Where his experience, qualifications will be questioned and no doubt take a couple of seconds to detail. 
There is a guy on here by all accounts asking for this kind of thing to put forward to improve the system. It wont work, the industry is stuck with it. In any event in the front of the "code of practice" is the famous disclaimer. So they will never be held liable.

Good luck, and by the way, a decent electrician  would have pulled his hammer and a couple of clips out and solved the "issue." Probably tells what kind of muppet he is.

Best regards, UKPN
Sparkingchip
4012 Posts
It’s a bit like complaining that your car failed its MOT because a tail light needed replacing.

Anyone can see that a tail light has failed on a car and anyone with a bit of sense would replace the tail light before taking the car for a MOT, would you start moaning that the car failed its MOT because of the MOT tester did not replace the faulty tail light bulb for you?

The installation in the photo is not good enough and the person carrying out the inspection and testing is not there to do all the required repairs, but simply to report on the condition of the installation.

I would not be surprised if the person ordering the EICR thought the shed electrical installation would not even be checked.

 
UKPN
212 Posts
Keep with the programme fella, a tail light is a clear fail, and any decent fitter would as part of the service replace anyway. However, we are talking about a simple situation where it was not expected a fraudulent report would be provided by the level of idiot becoming commonplace in this industry

Regards, UKPN
Sparkingchip
4012 Posts
Our team of experienced mechanics carry out an independent check on your vehicle, but do not carry out any of the required repairs.

https://www.wyreforestdc.gov.uk/the-depot/mots.aspx

Any issues with that?
UKPN
212 Posts
I am wondering how many old age pensioners and vulnerable people this "inspector("!!!!!"} has ripped off (so far) this week. So thick he cant see word will get round. Id be interested to see his qualifications/experience.Probably fill a postage stamp

Regards, UKPN
Sparkingchip
4012 Posts
UKPN:
Keep with the programme fella, a tail light is a clear fail, and any decent fitter would as part of the service replace anyway. However, we are talking about a simple situation where it was not expected a fraudulent report would be provided by the level of idiot becoming commonplace in this industry

Regards, UKPN


So what you are saying is that customers should instruct an electrician to “service” their electrical installations and undertake all repairs so that they always get a satisfactory EICR?

This installation is ####, the discussion is not about if it is bad, just how bad. I have no sympathy for the person who received an unsatisfactory EICR, it’s their own fault for not getting the installation tidied up before it was inspected and tested.

We can only see a section of the cable, but some people seem to think it is outrageous to state that the cable needs impact protection, but it may be quite a sensible observation.

 

Sparkingchip
4012 Posts
newtoeicr:

Hi,

I’ve just had an EICR done last week, One item I do not understand and would need an electrician or someone to help please. the EICR report says “MISSING TRUNKING WITH WIRES NOT SUPPORTED C2 SHED.” The cable is clipped on the wood wall in the shed. There are no exposed wires. And the shed is not on escape routes. Does cable need to be in trunking in order to comply with the electrical wire regulation? Is the code 2 correct for this situation?  please see photo.

Thank you for help


There is not actually ANY CLIPS securing the cable.

Sparkingchip
4012 Posts
To sum up, it’s ####, stop moaning.
If this was the only point then yes clip it back up, it’s a C3 and anyone can easily fix it. I expect there’s an endless list of C2s in this case. The most disappointing part is the high number of NICIC approved firms producing these reports with what appears to be complete lack of knowledge. 
ebee
1147 Posts
"The most disappointing part is the high number of NICIC approved firms producing these reports with what appears to be complete lack of knowledge. "

Sorry I must disagree.

It`s not a high number , it`s the vast majority of them!
Dbat
63 Posts
How anyone who is qualified to a suitable standard to do and EICR can C2 that is beyond me. Alright all the lips have broke, but its clearly not above a doorway, and if it did fall, the shelf bracket would catch it anyway. C3 at the most, where is the the potential danger in this picture caused by that cable? Just another example of job creation that EICR's are being used for. To me, EICR's are not about safety anymore, its all about job creation from vulnerable or ill-informed customers
Sparkingchip
4012 Posts
I have just shown that photo to my wife.

She says although she is not an electrician she can see it is potentially dangerous and there’s no way it’s acceptable.

There are five broken clips and the cable is not secured to the wall in any way whatsoever,it is merely hooked over one of the broken clips.

It obviously does not go into fitting that is secured to the wall at the bottom of the photo, because the cable is several inches away from the wall, so the cable either goes on down at a height where bikes, garden tools and other stored items could be leaning on it or there is a broken fitting dangling on the end of it.

Whoever failed to maintain this installation in a safe condition should not be surprised that it has has been classified as unsafe to use.

 It is obviously a potential entanglement issue just to someone putting their bike away in the shed, they could catch it with the handle bars!

What do you think the GasSafe inspector would say if that was a length of gas pipe? Oh, it’s okay it will hold itself up?

 

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