This discussion is locked.
You cannot post a reply to this discussion. If you have a question start a new discussion

Economy 7 Supply Control.

Evnin' All,

                   at today's first job I came upon a strange thing, well for me anyway. A house has economy 7 storage heaters, no gas present. The Economy 7 supply is controlled by a loud buzzing contactor that makes a big bang when it operates. It is situated near to the meter but is controlled by a simple 24 hour time switch that might as easily control an immersion heater. The time switch can be altered by the house owner, as well as being manually turned on and off.


Why this arrangement, and not a proper Economy 7 timer switch or teleswitch.?


Z.

  • Odd - what does the meter/meters look like?


    I gather some installation are given a low current 'pilot' line (or French style 0V contacts) to signal when off-peak charges apply - so the supplier doesn't have the responsibility of a big contactor (often in flats so you only need one large submain up to the flat (plus a thin pilot cable) rather than two large submains) - but a consumer's timeswitch doesn't make much sense to me.


       - Andy.
  • According to the house owner the meter is a smart meter. It certainly looks like one but does not have any "official" Economy 7 provision that I can identify. She claims that her tariff is Economy 7.


    Z.
  • We had some fun with economy 7 with a flat that in the end we never got converted to smart meter.


    It seems that the modern way is to have time varying rates, but only one set of meter tails,. so  in effect the whole shebang is on cheap rate at the appropriate time and full rate the rest of the time but no power is switched. The meter knows how many units were used at varying the times, but how that gets back to the billing is more complex, and I was assured that there were no contacts on the meter as such to allow us to know which rate was in force.

    (The old meter has two dials and a contactor inside it, so there are two lots of tails etc.)

    I have since been told this is cobblers, and that meters with timed contacts to operate pilots/relays  etc are certainly available, but not all energy suppliers will wire them in or enable them in software..

    Maybe this householder is with the same supplier and has to set the clock manually to match the times on the tariff  and risk a bit iof mis-billing if the clock drifts?

  • mapj1:

    We had some fun with economy 7 with a flat that in the end we never got converted to smart meter.


    It seems that the modern way is to have time varying rates, but only one set of meter tails,. so  in effect the whole shebang is on cheap rate at the appropriate time and full rate the rest of the time but no power is switched. The meter knows how many units were used at varying the times, but how that gets back to the billing is more complex, and I was assured that there were no contacts on the meter as such to allow us to know which rate was in force.

    (The old meter has two dials and a contactor inside it, so there are two lots of tails etc.)

    I have since been told this is cobblers, and that meters with timed contacts to operate pilots/relays  etc are certainly available, but not all energy suppliers will wire them in or enable them in software..

    Maybe this householder is with the same supplier and has to set the clock manually to match the times on the tariff  and risk a bit iof mis-billing if the clock drifts?

     


    The customer's time switch has no battery back up so power cuts will put it out of true time.


    Z.


  • Zoomup:

    According to the house owner the meter is a smart meter. It certainly looks like one but does not have any "official" Economy 7 provision that I can identify. She claims that her tariff is Economy 7.


    Z.


    If that's the case you should be able to press a button a few times to see different registers for the different times - I think mine has 4 (import) plus exports - but being on a normal tariff thee of the four import registers are always zero.

       - Andy.


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    I gather some installation are given a low current 'pilot' line (or French style 0V contacts) to signal when off-peak charges apply


    Hmm, the "pilot" is indeed a voltage supply that is now not installed, as it was a favourite means of abstraction Andy so 0 V contacts are now supplied with the input taken after the meter so if abstraction is attempted, it is metered.


    Regards


    BOD


  • I have an E7 supply for storage heating in my Norfolk cottage as there is no gas in the village. I had a key meter which was a pain in the backside. I asked the supplier to replace this with a smart meter and was told that I could not have one as the phone signal was not good enough in my village.


    The key meter supplied 2 consumer units one for the domestic and one for the E7. The E7 was supplied by a contactor switched by a pair of insulated and sheathed small CSA singles and a sealed fuse carrier.


    After a lot of effort on my part to prove I was creditworthy the day came for the man to turn up to replace the meter. On arrival I said I wanted a Smart meter and was told on the phone I could not have one due to the poor phone signal. Nonsense says the man I have just fitted one in this road. Out he goes to the man and comes back with a box of tools and a Smart meter. Opening the meter cupboard he says no you have an E7 supply and we don't do 5 hole Smart meters. Back to the van and comes back with a dumb 5 hole meter. He stripped out the old contactor, fuse carrier and conductors so now the line conductor from hole 5 supplies the E7 consumer unit direct.


    I have been changing the perfectly good E7 heaters to newer ones that meet the visual requirements of the senior management. I have one left to change and have been told that you cannot buy ordinary E7 heaters anymore without additional digital controls which I do not want, is that true?
  • I think it is, I have just bought three Dimplex and they are all dual supply with controls, also they are linked to the Dimplex control system so the owner can switch them remotely
  • and have been told that you cannot buy ordinary E7 heaters anymore without additional digital controls which I do not want, is that true?

    Sounds like LOT 20 (energy efficiency regulations) - as I understand it manufacturers/importers must comply, but you're still free to buy older (conventional) versions if you can find some in the supply chain.

       - Andy.
  • AJJewsbury:
    Zoomup:

    According to the house owner the meter is a smart meter. It certainly looks like one but does not have any "official" Economy 7 provision that I can identify. She claims that her tariff is Economy 7.


    Z.


    If that's the case you should be able to press a button a few times to see different registers for the different times - I think mine has 4 (import) plus exports - but being on a normal tariff thee of the four import registers are always zero.

       - Andy.




    I could not easily see the meter as it is located low down at the back of a kitchen unit in the gloom. I am not very good at emptying kitchen cupboards.


    Z.