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Need for an EICR if I have an EIC?
JSteele
7 Posts
Question
Hi all, I am letting out a property and new regulations have come into source mandating the need for an EICR by April 2021. I had my consumer unit replaced with a new one (metal case) in July 2019, which included RCBOS along with an additional circuit installed and the electrician issued me an EIC valid for 5 years. Do I need to get an EICR given I have an EIC? I have had conflicting information from different electricians so keen to get a definitive answer, including from the IET.

Follow on question is if I have no CPC on lighting circuit, but have all class 2 fittings (lights and switches) and warning on consumer unit, is that a C3?
16 Replies
JSteele
7 Posts
Just bumping this post! Any input is appreciated!
Chris Pearson
2045 Posts
Missed the question the first time round!

Difficult to see how the installation of a new CU would not involve at least some testing, but it may not strictly be evidence of inspection. Ideally, there would be an EICR prior to a CU replacement so that any peripheral defects could be remedied. The answer really is, "it depends".

As for lighting circuits with no CPC, the subject has been discussed here fairly recently. If you use the search facility, you may find the answer that you want. (Again, opinions differ.)
Simon Barker
806 Posts
The actual legislation https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/312/regulation/3/made is extremely vague on the matter, only referring to a "report", without saying what a report is.

The government's guidance https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector-guidance-for-landlords-tenants-and-local-authorities/guide-for-landlords-electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector is that an EIC is appropriate "If a property is newly built or has been completely rewired".
lyledunn
465 Posts
I cannot comment on the regulations that you refer to as we don’t have them here. What is required, however, is an absolute duty for a landlord to ensure that the electrical installation in his property is safe. Knowing the trade, I doubt very much that you could equate the EIC given for the consumer unit change with a properly conducted periodic inspection. As for the lighting without cpc, my view would be to sort it out properly, end of problem!
AJJewsbury
2163 Posts
Strictly speaking an EIC covers the work that's just been installed (i.e. in your case the new CU only) rather than the entire installation. So if you'd had a complete re-wire (or it was a new build) then an EIC would suffice instead of an EICR, but in this case, on paper at least, the older part of the installation isn't covered.

Granted a CU replacement often results in a fair amount of inspection and testing of the existing installation - and often people will recommend carrying out a full inspection and test of the existing installation before performing a CU change to ensure there aren't any nasty surprises that'll result in problems with the new CU (nuisance tripping due to pre-existing faults etc.) but you really need the paperwork to show that was the case.

   - Andy.
John Peckham
568 Posts
The measure for the use of protection by double or reinforced insulation is the installation is that effective measures are in place for example by adequate supervision see Regulation 412.1.2.

So in my view this measure for protection cannot be used in rented premises. So C2 for me. We all know that tenants will change light fittings and replace plastic switches with metallic light fittings and metal dimmer switches. 
GTB
37 Posts
So my thoughts would be, when was the full installation last inspected by a competant person? Unless the entity replacing the CU was instructed to carry that out or they themselves carried out a full inspection before changing the CU and then any defects reported to the duty holder. Certainly testing of circuits should have been carried out for the replacement of the consumer unit.
Duty Holder is required to have a report and that the electrical installation is safe for the tenants.So to JSteele are you just not wanting to spend the money on a EICR being carried out? or do you already know that there are defects/issues and thats going to be more costly and disruptive and you are happy to standby the 5yrs on the EIC.
 
JSteele
7 Posts
Great, thanks for the flurry of replies! In which case, I will get an EICR booked before April.

In terms of the lighting with no CPC, I had a look at previous posts and I see what you mean about opinions differing! Given the disruption, I will look at sorting this once the current tenant moves out. We have been clear with the tenant that light fittings can't be changed and we check them during inspection visits.
mapj1
2851 Posts
Does the EIC include a schedule of inspection and test results for all the circuits or just the new stuff ?
Or is the issuing electrician happy to provide an inspection report cover sheet to go with his existing results?
No to both suggests a complete inspection was not carried out, just a new CU stuck on the end of old wires.
Re the lights.
There really should not be that many good installations left without an earth ( sometimes called CPC Circuit Protective Conductor) in the lighting - after all the requirement for this became compulsory in 1966. Is the rest of the installation from that era, and more than 54 years old  ?
That said, if it has been well looked after, it may still be in good condition for a few more years.
This is the most recent similar discussion I can find. 
It is fair to say opinion is divided on the interpretation of these relatively  new rules. Even if you can rent it out for now on the back of the EIC, set aside the rewire money, as you will need it in a few years.
regards
Mike.
JSteele
7 Posts
Hi GTB,

Not trying to get away with hiding issues as such. The consumer unit was installed only after I asked the electrician to inspect the electrics - and at that point he said to upgrade it, along with running ring to the kitchen. He then issued an EIC (at that time, I assumed that was the same as an inspection certificate). He said he inspected everything (the EIC had a part 9 which is a schedule of items inspected, with most items ticked unless there was an "N/A" such as for 6.1b PELV system including the source and associated circuits ).

But given the guidance above etc, sounds like it makes sense to get an EICR to be sure.
Blencathra
95 Posts
I was asked to carry out an EICR for a church group who were going to rent a house to a charity for vulnerable adults, when I arrived I found new CU & EIC but because the cert did not have a "satisfactory " box to tick they insisted on a full EICR
mapj1
2851 Posts
If there are only 4 circuits, then they have all been inspected.
Assuming it is not a copy and paste error, those results show the lights, both up and down, are wired with modern metric cables with an earth, and the '0.8' and '0.9' "R1+ R2"  are the results of loop-back resisance checks verifying the earth continuity to the far end of that wiring, so you do have a CPC. Or if you really don't it is just possible you were sent someone else's form by mistake, I suppose. Is your tenant or their agent happy with that format ?
Mike.
JSteele
7 Posts
mapj1 - sorry I was so unclear in my original post. The no CPC was for different property where I do have an EICR in place.

The EIC was for a different property where there is CPC, but no EICR.
Chris Pearson
2045 Posts
Inspection would involve unscrewing at least a sample of sockets, ceiling roses and light switches to have a look behind. That may or may not have been undertaken prior to the CU change. However, the posting above suggests that the process started with a PIR and then moved on to remedial work, which has been certified. Taking a broad view, in my opinion, the EIC is good for 5 years.
JSteele
7 Posts
Chris Pearson:
Inspection would involve unscrewing at least a sample of sockets, ceiling roses and light switches to have a look behind. That may or may not have been undertaken prior to the CU change. However, the posting above suggests that the process started with a PIR and then moved on to remedial work, which has been certified. Taking a broad view, in my opinion, the EIC is good for 5 years.

Yes - I asked him to inspect, and his inspection resulted in a the recommendation of changing the CU. Interestingly he didn't issue me with an Inspection Report, only the EIC after the remedial work was done.

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