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Smoke alarms, are they appropriate.

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Part of the communal areas of purpose built sheltered housing flats on three floors with a lift that has a full monitored fire alarm system, that closes the internal fire doors and opens the exterior doors when activated. 


Each individual flat has a heat alarm in its hallway connected to the communal alarm system and also has an Aico interconnected smoke and heat alarm system that is connected to the intercom system allowing the call centre to monitor them and speak to the tenants to ask why they have been activated. 


Can you think of any justification for installing very basic domestic battery operated smoke alarms in the communal areas?


Because I cannot think of any way their installation can be justified, particularly as they will not be monitored in any way and should not be required. 


Andy B
  • 66.3 Fire detection and alarm systems are not normally provided in the common parts of blocks of flats (with the exception of sheltered housing schemes). This has been the benchmark standard for many years (see Appendix 1) and continues to be the case for new blocks of flats under the current guidance in Approved Document B.

    66.4 As indicated earlier, there may be circumstances in which such a system needs to be provided in order to compensate for shortcomings in compartmentation and means of escape.

    66.5 In any block of flats where a communal fire alarm system is installed, the system should be of the type to which BS 5839-1 applies. Domestic smoke alarms are not appropriate for the common parts of blocks of flats, nor is it appropriate to apply the recommendations of BS 5839-6 to a communal fire alarm system. Where domestic smoke alarms exist in the common parts of a block, they may, and often should, be removed and replaced (if this is essential) with a fire alarm system of the type to which BS 5839-1 applies.

    Local Government Association


    Andy B
  • Hi Andy,

    just a couple of points first.

    When you say "opens the exterior doors when activated " do you mean unlocks rather than opens?

    Am I correct that I understand that 1) outside each flat there are interconnected heat alarms as a communial alarm and 2) there are combined smoke/heat alarms connected to the intercom system ?

    So, in effect, then 2) would be dealt with initially via operator intervention i.e "is it real or is it a false alarm" and 1) is the second line of defence in case danger starts to spread with or without operator intervention (for alarms initiated inside a flat).

    Hope I got that right.


    So are any more additions required (I`d think not) or an actual improvement (I`d think so, mostly but with drawbacks). Overall it can`t hurt can it?


    I`m intrigued as to why your question, perhaps somone has insisted it must be done for compliance to something.


    Essentially I think the same as you
  • There are intercom call points in the communal areas and each of the flats allowing people to contact a call centre, the intercoms at the front and rear entrances allow visitors to contact each of the individual flats and the residents can then open the front and back doors, they can also see who’s at the front and back doors using their televisions as monitors for the CCTV system, as can the call centre.


    The fire alarm system in the communal area is a part one system that is monitored by the same call centre, when it is activated the internal fire doors close and the external entrance doors fully open to allow people in the building to evacuate and the emergency services to enter the building.


    The flats have monitored part six systems.


    I am really finding it hard to any justification for installing battery operated stand alone smoke detectors, if an issue has been identified that needs dealing with this cannot be the way to resolve it as far as I can see.


    Andy Betteridge

  • Can you think of any justification for installing very basic domestic battery operated smoke alarms in the communal areas?



    Is it a real smoke alarm? and not say a covert CCTV camera?

       - Andy.
  • At a stretch....

    The main alarm has no UPS/power back up and

    in the event of a power loss these would be the (last and) only defense ?


    AFAIK, Battery backed versions should (these days) be the 10 year Lithium versions (if only to reduced maint' costs) not the standard 1-2 year that was acceptable some 10-15 years ago, and perhaps once the 10 year /label warranty went those were replaced with the same instead of the current 10 year battery version - typically maintainence Co and Contracts merely say replace with same not improve.

    Afterall FRA prepared by external 'experts' are of very variable quality, yet are only advisory after all - despite a belief that it transfers responsibility from the owners/directors of the institution, so may not have raised it as an issue.


  • Backup for a part one alarm system provided by alarms with PP3 batteries?


    Andy Betteridge

  • Backup for a part one alarm system provided by alarms with PP3 batteries





    Well, I did say it was a stretch !

  • When I posted this topic I could not think of any possible justification for the installation of the smoke alarms, but I thought I’d run it past my peer group on the off chance I might not have thought of something that I should have.


    This topic has now been viewed one hundred and seventy times without anyone coming up with any possible justification, so I think my original WTF reaction when I saw the alarms was the correct one.


    Andy Betteridge
  • Timeline - which was put in first - i.e could they have been put in first, but left there after the main system went in,  - or was there some re-furbishment that meant that for a short period  some zones of the proper system had to be switched off  and this was a risk reduction excerise.?

    Or was there a desire to detect someone smoking in the corridor without  triggering the whole building alarm but to name and shame the perpetrrator - i.e. not a fire alarm in the normal sense at all, more of a local 'reminder' to go outside.?

    None of it very likely I agree.

    I presume there is no-one in a position of authority who can be asked?
  • Ahh, seems I wrongly assumed (you should never assume!) that the standalone units were planned as being needed ad not in place yet.

    Mapj1 might be on the right track methinks