On the subject of pulling the DNO fuse.

Simple. 

They should fit isolators and maintain 'their' equipment so that it is fit for purpose.

I recall changing a CU in a remote farmhouse, I had just pulled the fuse when there was a knock at the door, I answered it holding the fuse in my hand to see meter reader, he came in read the meter and went

Just get a isolator fitted beforehand, think British Gas charged £43 last year. Got one tomorrow but there moving the head s not a problem. 

I asked one of my customer to get an isolator fitted. Her supplier was SSE and they did it with no charge.
At home, we have just had a smart meter fitted. My conditions were that it was SMETS2 and an isolator was fitted at the same time. No charge from Opus Energy.

Dave

You have to keep an eye on the DNOs. Prior to last week's service head and meter move, I had established that the DNO would fit an isolator. The gang which turned up had no such expectation, but happily, they found one in the van.

The householder had been advised to have their sparks on standby, but had they not fitted an isolator, I imagine that the DNO would have retained their fuse with the intention of returning when the consumer tails were ready to be connected to the meter.

Yes, you have to keep an eye on the DNOs.

 

A cynic who does not yet have a smart meter, might be tempted to pull the fuse and fit an isolator in advance whilst this can be done without detection. 

alanblaby:
There have been a couple of reports here of the DNO confronting electricians who have pulled their fuse.. . 
. . . reported by the Smart Meter phoning home.

I'll bet they are!
Nice little earner for em.
I had a customer last week - told them in no uncertain terms to refuse any offer of a smart meter.
Another customer had 2 cancelled appointments with Scottish Power to have a isolator fitted - 3 weeks later a really nice guy finally turned up and told me that they weren't bothered about seals being pulled because fitting an isolator was a loss to them financially but they more than made up for it with the vast smart meter subsidies they were receiving from the Govt.
The present smart meter thing is a very very lucrative number for some if not the customer/end-user. He also said that Scottish Power do not bother policing such matters unless the meter in question is a credit meter, not only this, fiddling gas meters was much more prevalent than fiddling electricity meters.
Everyone's mileage may vary.
I point blank refuse to have a smart meter fitted myself. I don't want snoopers monitoring my usage. I pay the bill when it hits the letterbox, no direct debit, paper bill presented quarterly.
If they are invoicing me for a standing charge they can bloody well work for it.

Well said that man!

Alan Capon:

Regarding the fitting of isolators, both the Health & Safety Executive and OFGEM are content with the procedures currently in place by the Meter Operators / DNOs for providing isolation for electricians. 

 

I'm sure they are.  But what about the consumers and their electricians?  It's hardly satisfactory that the customer has to pay the supplier to turn off the power, just so their electrician can do some work, when an isolator could have been fitted at the same time as the new meter. 

pretty disgracefull methinks - unless Alarn can educate us why

On the subject of putting the fuse back, how many of you re-seal it.

I noticed last week that ENWL's seals appear to have no identification.

well in many designs if you leave a cut out totally unsealed, you are leaving it where live terminals can be exposed by anyone without the use of tools, and not small area rcd protected terminals at that. So assuming you find an unsealed cut out, then  to be responsible to the safety of others needs something, even if it is little more than a twist tie of wire.
Actually proper seals are not that expensive.  I'm sure other parts of the internet sell smaller quantities. And in the longer term the DNO really ought to be told to come and fit one of theirs when they have time.

mapj1:
well in many designs if you leave a cut out totally unsealed, you are leaving it where live terminals can be exposed by anyone without the use of tools, and not small area rcd protected terminals at that. So assuming you find an unsealed cut out, then  to be responsible to the safety of others needs something, even if it is little more than a twist tie of wire.
Actually proper seals are not that expensive.  I'm sure other parts of the internet sell smaller quantities. And in the longer term the DNO really ought to be told to come and fit one of theirs when they have time.

Chris Pearson:
On the subject of putting the fuse back, how many of you re-seal it.

I noticed last week that ENWL's seals appear to have no identification.

Re-seal it?  When I bought my house 10 years ago, the seal was already cut.  Since then several meter readers have been and gone (and several electricians have been and gone), and none has ever mentioned it.  The meter seals are intact, and there's no sign of any tampering with it, so I don't suppose anyone cares.

If you put a new seal on it, then the next electrician will only have to cut it again 😉

If a DNO has point-blank refused to perform its statutory duty under ESQCR to provide the type and rating of the supply fuse when asked, then I don't feel much guilt in finding out for myself.

I had a meter change this morning and have to say I was impressed by the sparks who turned up to do the job.

i had a key meter in my Norfolk home which was proving a pain so asked for a change to a credit meter . As I am intending to change the main consumer unit and the E7 board And expecting to have a smart meter I put a REC 2 isolator with the integral Type 2 SPD ( I have an overhead supply from a pole transformer under the blackest spot on the FD map). 

The key meter had had a pair of singles that switched the contactor supplying the E7 line to the E7 board.

The meter man could not fit a smart meter as he said his company does not have 5 hole smart meters so he fitted a 5 hole dumb meter. The contactor, fuse holder and switch pair have been removed and the switched line goes directly from the meter to the E7 board. So now my REC 2 switches the line to my consumer unit and the neutrals to both boards.

He fitted new seals to the top and bottom of my series 7 fuse carrier, meter, my REC 2 and my single pole Henleys. So now  I will have to fit a REC 2 in to the tails of my E7 board during the day time so. I can replace both plastic consumer units with all circuits RCDed in steel boards to upgrade to the 18th Edition.

He he said he was told one maker does a 5 hole smart meter but he has not seen one and his company does not have any. So it would appear you are unlikely to get a smart meter if you have E7 heating.

So now my REC 2 switches the line to my consumer unit and the neutrals to both boards.

Am I misreading your post John, it seems that for one board you switching Live & Neutral, but just the Neutral on the other?

Clive

Yes my REC 2 supplies a pair of single pole Henleys. The main consumer unit tails are connected to both Henleys, however only the neutral of the E7 is connected to the Neutral Henley the Line from the E7 board goes directly to the switched neutral from the meter. My intention is to install another REC 2 to provide isolation for the E7 board without the need to pull the fuse. 

John Peckham:
... the Line from the E7 board goes directly to the switched neutral from the meter.

Chris 

Wel spotted, I was just testing the powers of observation of forum members. The Line conductor from the E7 board goes directly to the switched output on the meter.

I find the DNO themselves to be much more approachable than some of the metering companies when it comes to pulling the cutout.
I guess this comes down to who loses the most money in the event of abstraction? 99% of the time a missing seal is due to entirely innocent reasons. (Often a previous contractor, or even damage due to simple wear and tear, picture a meter or service cutout seal of the old lead type,  in the Harry Potter suite, knocked by the Hoover every time it's taken out...)

As to legality, I'd be one of those to argue that my responsibility of FIRST concern is my own and my colleague's safety... so if withdrawing the fuse carrier is safer than attempting to work live, then so be it.

MHRestorations:
As to legality, I'd be one of those to argue that my responsibility of FIRST concern is my own and my colleague's safety... so if withdrawing the fuse carrier is safer than attempting to work live, then so be it.

MHRestorations:
. . . As to legality, I'd be one of those to argue that my responsibility of FIRST concern is my own and my colleague's safety... so if withdrawing the fuse carrier is safer than attempting to work live, then so be it.

Alan, yes, in an ideal world that is true, but I have found since privatization the DNO's have become less responsive than the former electricity boards. A customer wants the work done now, they don't want to negotiate the quagmire of regulatory frameworks etc. We encourage the customer whenever major work is done, to have the DNO install an isolator.  But there are occasions where that's not practical or proportionate.

However, taking off my 'i want to get on with my job' hat... i fully approve of the procedures around sealing the DNO and metering company's gear... for safety as well as fraud prevention. It's just a shame the average sparky is thrown in with the 'getting free lecky' crowd, and there's not an intermediate procedure available? (temporary seals for registered CPS members for a nominal 5 pounds each would be an idea? with a responsibity to notify the DNO to have the next crew nearby to reseal it properly...). But these days everything is so complex with risk assessments and form filling

just my £0.02