This discussion is locked.
You cannot post a reply to this discussion. If you have a question start a new discussion

London Consumer Unit Fires.

It is comforting to know that there are apparently no consumer unit fire these days in London (or elsewhere) since all of the plastic consumer units have been replaced by metal enclosure types.


But, do not forget that there might be lots of sub-standard cable cooking and smouldering in people's homes installed years ago.


Lest we forget.........

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343


Z.
  • Well we all know that AMD 3 was the right man for the right job don`t we? ?
  • If someone fits a smart meter and jogs the leads into the consumer unit which then has a loose contact; who will pay for the fire damage?

  • CliveS:

    If someone fits a smart meter and jogs the leads into the consumer unit which then has a loose contact; who will pay for the fire damage?




     

    The customer, or their insurers, of course.  The electricity company will take no responsibility for faults in the customer's own equipment.  Actually, they avoid responsibility for their own equipment if they can.


    The same would apply if an old meter was being replaced with a new one, even if the new one wasn't smart.
  • The person whose insurance has the weaker legal team will pay, naturally.

    This legal judgment  shows that a DNO don't even pay up when it is clearly their ancient and un-inspected cut outs that catch fire, as with enough convoluted arguing , it becomes  the householder's problem (and even after this case it still is, though the judge is clearly uneasy that the defence  (DNO ) arguments are such he cannot hold the DNO to task - as per his concluding sentence. I get the feeling that unsaid is a 'but hang on a minute, ...' ).

     

    145.It follows from the above that the Claimants’ Claims must be dismissed and there will be judgment for the Defendants in each of the five sets of proceedings. Although limited breaches of duty have been established, it has not been established to anywhere near the requisite standard of proof that such breaches caused fires in any of the cases .
    Counsel for the Defendants reminded me, properly, that these five cases have not been in the nature of a public enquiry. In a public enquiry, the tribunal might well have called for much more and different evidence to that which was deployed. A Court can usually only base its decision on the case as put in the pleadings and on the evidence which is actually deployed in front of it. It may be however that the electrical distribution and supply industries may feel, at least in respect of the findings in this case, that they need actively to consider what the impact of ageing generations of cut-outs will be as time marches on.




  • Zoomup:

    But, do not forget that there might be lots of sub-standard cable cooking and smouldering in people's homes installed years ago........




    I must have missed this BBC news story when it was published. What struck me is the comment "The cable was sheathed in grey plastic and marked with the manufacturer's name. Basec advised that anybody worried about the cable in their home should commission an electrician to test the system."

    If you are asked to test a suspect system, what tests are you going to carry out? As the deficiency is stated to be that the cable has too little copper, the proper test is to measure the conductivity, but for a meaningful result you need to know the length, and if it is already installed in a house that is going to be problematical. The only thing that I can see will work is to look at the cable sheath markings, which the homeowner can do anyway.

  • You could measure the diameter of the cable using vernier callipers.  From that calculate the cross-sectional area, and see if it's what it is supposed to be.

  • Simon Barker:

    You could measure the diameter of the cable using vernier callipers.  From that calculate the cross-sectional area, and see if it's what it is supposed to be.




    That doesn't work. The size of the cable is the "nominal cross-sectional area" which is not necessarily the same as the actual csa. The purer the copper, the less csa is needed, but then that gives rise to other problems (e.g. work hardening from bending). The good manufacturers will have the copper core at an optimum and make the cable from as little copper as the standard will allow and hence maximise profits, which are little enough for cable makers anyway.

    Take a look at IEC 60228 and you will see that the measure of the nominal diameter is the resistance, not how much copper is in the cable.

    Alasdair


  • mapj1:

    The person whose insurance has the weaker legal team will pay, naturally.

    This legal judgment  shows that a DNO don't even pay up when it is clearly their ancient and un-inspected cut outs that catch fire, as with enough convoluted arguing , it becomes  the householder's problem (and even after this case it still is, though the judge is clearly uneasy that the defence  (DNO ) arguments are such he cannot hold the DNO to task - as per his concluding sentence. I get the feeling that unsaid is a 'but hang on a minute, ...' )



    Basically, the judge said that there was nothing which the DNOs should have done which would have prevented the fires.


    (Actually he said that the DNOs' failure to do what they should have done didn't cause the fires.)


    What we don't know is whether routine replacement at, say 25 years, would give rise to fewer (or more) fires; and if it did, whether the expense would be justified.