Alan thanks for challenging the community. I am happy to take part in discussions. It's a very important piece of engineering and I am in no doubt that implementation  sets apart projects that are a success from ones that are complete failures.

Hi

I must admit as a new IET member, I was a bit disappointed in the lack of traffic within this community. I'm a systems engineer working on defining web services for provisioning of micro-services in cloud base infrastructure. If people are involved with designing or deploying dockerized applications, then I would love to hear their experiences in overcoming networking and orchestration challenges.


Best regards


Gordon

Some really encouraging responses! Let's get a few more views and then see what themes are emerging.

Thumbs up Alan for your observation and input.

Thanks 

Thanks for sharing Joseph. I was wondering why INCOSE seemed to have no evangelists to promote systems engineering in the wider world. Perhaps the members are too insular?


For me, the outreach never seems to be quite there; may be that's unfair comment as I am out in Canada and the knowledge of this subject matter doesn't seem to have been adopted by the large projects.  But you raise some good points as to why they may be struggling.


If there truly is an incapability of INCOSE to move with the times, surely as members of the IET we have a better capability of promoting this in all our projects.


Current issues that I perceive:


1) Systems Engineering- Little to no knowledge of this in Civil world, therefore application in large projects can be minimal. (see 8) )

2) Predominantly seen as something which spans the hardware/software domains only.

3) Misunderstanding of how this successfully used in an Multi-discipline large capital project.

4) Implemented too late.

5) Stats on its use and project success are not easy to find.

6) Lack of understanding of project life cycle.

7) Unwillingness to adopt this technique - Needs constant education.

8) Civil project design methodology different to the processes of other disciplines.

9) Project managers unaware of benefits and the de-risking of projects using this technique.

10) Clients need to be better informed of this.


Rather than discuss the woes of INCOSE, perhaps its better to raise the profile of Systems Engineering within the IET:  To be frank , I thought many of the IET.TV seminars reference this discipline but perhaps its not brought together in a more cohesive manner. So kudos to Alan for stoking the fire ;-)   

 

Last year my stepson won the INCOSE body of knowladge book, at the STEM promotion science fair held yearly at Northrop Gruman. Many societies and institutes such as IET, IEEE, and INCOSE had booths with promotional materials. Interesting lectures from NASA, JPL, and others about CURIOSITY 2020 project and many others are offered during the event. Parents bring children to raise the children's interest in STEM and Engineering etc.


I like the approach of raising the profile of Systems Engineering within the IET

In some companies, Systems Engineering was hijacked by Engineering of Sytems and it's maybe a subject for future discussions.


At least a few of colleagues are calling themselves Software Architects or other designation and Systems Engineer. Obviously, Systems Engineering covers many Engineering disciplines yet it has no Engineer designation.  The Certification by  INCOSE is very rigorous and demanding, and again most Systems Engineers that looked at it feel that it should be called Certified Professional Systems Engineer and that Engineering Practitioner or Professional designation is weak and misunderstood.

At one of my jobs, I was a Regional Systems Engineer, the position no longer exists today its been replaced by Systems Architect due to legalities of the use of the title Engineer.

Yet some societies are brave they, for example, SBE in the USA, have Professional Broadcast Engineer certification.

I didn't check personally but intend to do so, while there are jobs specifically requesting Sytems Engineers how many of these jobs are requesting an INCOSE certification?

Some say Systems Engineer had its pick in the late 90s early 2000's, now its viewed wrongfully I may add as somewhat archaic designation, maybe because it's not promoted properly.  

Only yesterday local  IET - IET Southern California members and their families attended an IET event: 
"Virgin Orbit Visit".  https://virginorbit.com/

What can I say, it had in my mind Sytems Engineering all over it. And they are now searching for Principal SE's who will be performing system architecture, performance analysis, hazards analysis, and verification activities in support of the integrated LauncherOne, 747 and launch operations system for the LauncherOne small satellite launch program. This role is for a hands-on person with great attention to detail and excellent people skills. This is a full-time position at our rocket factory in beautiful Long Beach, California.
** I don't work for them nor represent or advertise here anything related just providing my opinion and info.


Moshe Waserman, BEET, MCGI, CEng MBCS, MIET

Moshe,

I was luckily enough to be one of the 60 attendees at the SoCal LN organised Virgin Orbit factory tour in Long Beach California.   There was a great discussion, without explicit reference to system engineering, that covered many systems thinking principles such as requirements, reliability, cost, schedule, risks, logistics, coordination between teams, testing and evaluation, maintainability and many other issues related to a successful system development, operation and decommissioning throughout the lifecycle of the LauncherOne two-stage, expendable, LOX/RP-1 rocket that launches from their mobile air launch pad, a customized 747-400 carrier aircraft, called Cosmic Girl, and associated ground system. Attendees were a nice mix of YPs, members, fellows and several students, in almost equal proportion.


The IET claims to be the most multidisciplinary and one of the world’s largest engineering institutions with over 170K+ members in 150+ countries, and given system engineering is such an interdisciplinary field of engineering and engineering management, you'd think it would have a more prominent place in the IET's portfolio of funded activities as a TPN, especially since it overlaps so many technical disciplines such as industrial engineering, mechanical engineering, manufacturing engineering, control engineering, software engineering, electrical engineering, cybernetics, organizational studies and project management. 


To the broader SE community, If this community is serious about getting more active, I recommend people volunteer and form a community organizing committee to do the following with the goal of becoming a funded TPN to raise awareness of the benefits of SE to acquirers/sponsors of complex systems or systems of systems:
Get to know the IET Communities team, as they are a great resource http://www.theiet.org/volunteers/active/how-iet-works/communities-contacts.cfm
and check out these resources, to come up with an action plan:

• Applying for funding

• Communities’ aims and objectives

• Communities' overview

• Communities' metrics

• Good Practice Guides

• Managing money

• Marketing and promotion

• PR, Communication & Branding

• Producing Content

• Products and services

• Successful IET Communities

• Running events

 

Communities strategy - Get the bigger picture and understand the strategic direction For IET Communities.

Good practice guides - Written by volunteers, gathering a range of knowledge across LNs.

Managing money - Information, forms and guidance to help you financially manage your community.

Marketing and promotion - Find out how to reach a wider audience with our tools to promote your events and community.

Online communities - COMING SOON! Create an active online IET Community.

Planning and funding - How should you plan and fund an IET community?

PR, communication & branding - Use PR and communication to widen your audience and do this within the IET brand.

Producing content - Learn how to produce great content that helps you grow your community.

Products and services - Keep up to date with other IET products and services and learn how to promote them.

Successful communities - Find out what success looks like.

Running successful events - Hints and tips to make your event amazing!

Can't find the information you're looking for? Get in touch. 


David McQuiggan, Volunteer Member of the SoCal LN Organizing Committee

 

Thanks to everyone who has participated in the conversation so-far, its encouraging that there is interest in systems approaches within the IET community and something I hope we can build on. I think as a next step I may cross-post into some other forums to see what interest there is.


I don't think its appropriate to discuss INCOSE business here, apart to note that there is a lot going on globally which people can read about at www.incose.org and that members can read about in the INCOSE Newsletter. INCOSE members are free to contact me separately if they wish.


Alan.