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Hello, Hydrogen & Anerkennung

JLawrie
Hello IET Germany Network,


I'm new to the IET online communities (first post), currently in Germany working full time in R&D in the Hydrogen industry and I wanted to introduce myself and say hello to everyone in this community.


I came looking for this community because my degree was accredited by the IET (I am not currently a member, but I was a student member hence the connection) and I have been considering working through the process for getting official recognition of my masters degree in Germany through a process called Anerkennung.


This is a formal process which would (hopefully) see my IET accredited degree as officially and legally equivalent to a Masters degree from a German institution. It is also required to work independently as an engineer rather than as an employee of a company doing engineering work. Another benefit is that it grants one the legal right to be introduced as an engineer ("Ingenieur" or "Ingenieurin"), something that would perhaps be nice.


I have been doing some research on the topic and I think I know what's involved, but what I am unsure of is whether it is something worth doing as a British trained engineer working in Germany (and hoping to continue doing so for the foreseeable future). I am also unsure whether it would interfere with possibly working towards chartership in the UK (do you have to work in the UK to qualify for CEng?).


As engineers and members of the IET in Germany, I couldn't think of a better place to ask for opinions on this topic, I hope that's ok. I welcome all and any thoughts on you all have to share.


Thank you for your time and understanding!


Kind regards,


Joe


Munich


P.S. Anyone else working with Hydrogen please let me know - I'm always happy to talk about what's occurring with Hydrogen. I don't know that much, but it's riding a wave of interest in Germany right now for sure.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Quite frankly - I never bothered. Never been a problem to date whilst UK was in the EU. The Bavarian government has a list of UK universities for which the degrees are considered to be equivalent under the so-called Bologna process.
  • 0
    Rob's right. A UK master's should be recognised but it won't allow you to call yourself a Dipl.Ing. It's possible to get accreditation as a Eur.Ing. but my impression is that only Brits ever do this and most Germans have ever heard of it.


    You should have no difficulty in getting C.Eng. status based on relevant experience in Germany but it won't do you much good if you intend to stay here. We used to interview in Germany but now the IET does it themselves.


    You can get more information on life here in Munich from a Stammtisch that meets the first Friday of every month at 7pm at the Unionsbräu near Max-Weber-Platz. Contact person is Athol Berry, a2holb@gmx.de. In the present situation it's not clear if we can meet face-to-face, but Athol will tell you.


    Regards


    Alec

    alec@clelland.net
  • 0
    Hi Rob and Alec,


    thank you for your feedback about the Anerkennung process and my questions about CEng in Germany. I was not aware of the Bologna process but I will investigate further, thank you! At the end of the present 'transition period', I have been told that the Anerkennung will function just the same for applicants with UK qualifications as those from countries which are not members of the EU, but if the Bologna process will continue to be valid too, that is (for me) functionally equivalent for the time being. If I think I want to go solo here then I guess I will have to do so, but I have no intentions of doing so at present.


    Alec may I ask what you mean by "it (CEng) won't do you much good if you intend to stay here.". The way I read this, I interpreted it as that CEng is not widely recognised in Germany and that investing the time in building towards it would not necessarily be worthwhile if I intend to remain working in Germany?


    I'll drop Athol an email and see what's occurring with the Stammtisch.


    Many thanks!


    Joe
  • 0
    Yes, nobody in Germany has heard of C.Eng. Or MIET for that matter. Really depends on how you see your future Joe.

    Alec

  • 0
    Hello,


    I have been following the discussion regarding the value of being a member of the IET and having the CEng title. Even though it is neither accepted nor recognised (by interviewers or company bosses) in Germany, I still made sure that I included these titles on my business cards and signed Emails and Letters with those Acronyms. It helps to break the ice and lead to questions, such as "..uh, what does that mean?". 


    For big companies, it may mean that the decision to hire goes to someone else who has his "Diplom" or "Masters-made-Germany". But for many, I found that an explanation was enough for the title to be accepted. Fairly soon, once you're in the door, it's performance that counts and qualifications are not so important. Still, some bosses will hire as many employees with (say) a doctor title as possible to boost their own apparent prestige.


    I found that being from the UK and particularly being an native speaker of the English language was mostly advantageous and recognised by colleagues and bosses as such. It is a huge advantage having someone around who can quickly interpret specifications accurately, help tidy up important letters and who can play a role in meetings in which there are other nationalities attending.


    As a final thought, you never quite know what's around the corner in your career and having the qualifications and registration appropriate for the UK may come in handy if you decide at some point that it makes sense to return to the UK or to go to some place which has strong connections with the IET.


    Meanwhile, check out the Stammtisch in Munich.


    Best regards,


    Alistair Gill. (I had better add CEng, MIET :-))

  • 0
    Hello,


    It is interesting to me to read that CEng, MIET and related qualifications are not recognised in Germany. Curiously this a little at odds with my previous understanding of the IET as a globally recognised organisation, I guess I had subconsciously assumed this included Germany. But no matter, the points about these kind of qualifications being helpful should I decide to return to the UK at some point in the future.


    On this matter may I ask which other places do have strong connections with the IET and/or recognition of the CEng qualification?


    Though I have not been working here very long, I echo the advantages of being a UK native working in a German company with diverse international customers wholly. Being able to be useful in this way is something that appeals to me about working abroad, in addition to (for me at least) a more promising outlook for graduate engineers than in the UK at the moment.


    Meanwhile I have enquired about the Stammtisch and hope to come along to one in the near future.


    Regards,


    Joe
  • 0
    Hi Joe. Alistair has pretty much said what needs to be said on the German attitude to C.Eng. and MIET. As he points out the big gain for German companies in employing UK graduates is that they're native English speakers. It's not so long ago that some of the major German companies switched to English as their working language,


    But there are some sceptical voices. In the days when I was involved in recruitment we found UK graduates as good technically as other nationalities but younger and more immature. They also had a less well-rounded education. Our older daughter went to school in Munich and uni in the UK. She was shocked when she found that her UK contemporaries weren't interested in discussing philosophy or ecology but rather Eastenders.


    The IET is fairly strong in commonwealth countries and has been making heroic efforts in China, but with how much success I don't know. If you scan the IET site you'll get a feel for which countries host groups.


    BTW, I was sceptical about Jitsi, having got used to Zoom and Skype, but once it's up and running it's no harder to use. The paranoics among us like it as the security is said to be good and the server is in Munich.


    Alec Clelland BSc CEng FIET (thanks for the reminder Alistair)
  • 0
    First Post here for me too!


    Given that it is a few months since you posted to the Topic, I wonder how you got on with your Anerkennung Joe?


    I am currently going through the same process - I was orignally told not to worry because "nothing would change" but then decided that as things weren't looking too good with respect to Brexit, perhaps I had better think about getting my degree accredited.  I've worked in Germany for over twenty years but primarily in IT, so I don't actually have "Ingenieur" in my job title.


    I am Chartered, but unfortunately as Alistair and Alec already said it isn't recognised in Germany - In fact I mentioned it to the Ingenieurkammer and was told "We're not interested in that" - So much for "internationally recognised qualification"!
  • 0
    Hello Robert,


    thank you for your message, welcome to the forums.


    The other members who replied to my initial question above were very kind to me and helpful in sharing their experience on this topic when I joined in with an online meeting earlier this year. I haven't made another (I have found Friday evenings tend to be quite busy, despite lockdowns etc.) but I look forward to hopefully being able to thank them in person at the next possible safe opportunity to do so.


    Regarding changes beyond the end of this year, who can say really how that will affect things. Learning of the Bologna Process reassured me that my qualifications will continue to be recognised for what they are, regardless of whether or not the official accreditation has been filed or not.


    Having discussed the topic with my company, they did not see it as particularly important and are ambivalent about whether I choose to proceed with it, much the same as their view on CEng. As such, given the non-trivial costs involved well into the hundreds of euros as well as the time, I decided to park the idea for a little while and save the resources.


    I cannot tell you whether my decision was a good one, but I guess time will tell. Perhaps interest will be rekindled for accreditation as a part of the "Green Industrial Revolution" in the UK, but if so I expect we've got a few years yet before that becomes urgent in terms of securing or continuing employment in "sustainable"/"green" engineering fields.


    All the best,


    Joe


    [MEng]
  • 0
    Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post Joe,


    I suspect you are right in the long run.  I decided back in June to be proactive with respect to the accreditation - I tend to be pessimistic by nature - but like you say, time will tell as to whether it turns out to be the right decision.  It certainly isn't a cheap process - and that's after you've had all the documentation translated.


    My degree is pre-Bologna, plus I preceeded it with an HND which means I transferred directly into the second year of the BEng(Hons) programme - So on paper my Bachelor was "only" two years, although it actually took four.  However, whether that has a negative impact on the application remains to be seen.


    I hope that in the years to come, the Engineering Council and the Institutions will make in-roads getting CEng better recognised in Europe.  I have a friend who is international vice president of the IMechE and I know that they have been doing a lot of work in this direction.  By all accounts, the sticking point as far as Germany is concerned is the Engineers who get Chartered status without actually having studied to a degree level.  However, in all honesty this is only a handful and that is only after many, many years of work experience.  Quite frankly, anyone who achieves CEng via that route absolutely deserves it!

     

    I hope there will be a "Green Industrial Revolution" in the UK.  My personal belief (without wanting to get political) is that Brexit will bite the UK a lot harder than many people think - which is why it surprises me so much that the institutions have been so quite about it.  I guess they don't want to upset any members.


    I report back here once I know - one way or another.


    Stay Healthy!

    Robert

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